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Old 02-03-2019, 08:23 PM   #241
Oz
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So I now have a big hole in my bulkhead

It was a bit a rush tonight as I was heading out for dinner so I'll have to sort some photos. I didn't even manage to measure how far back I got the subframe. It seems to sit in about the same place as the Custom-Minis frame. There is possibly scope to go back a little bit more but I don't think the extra work is worth it. I reckon it's about 25-30mm further back.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:49 AM   #242
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I didn't even manage to measure how far back I got the subframe. It seems to sit in about the same place as the Custom-Minis frame. There is possibly scope to go back a little bit more but I don't think the extra work is worth it. I reckon it's about 25-30mm further back.
Hmmmm, I managed a few minutes at the garage yesterday and noticed that the holes I'd drilled in the Watsons side plates were further forward on one side that the other, about a 5mm difference. The frame appears to be moved back 17mm on one side and 22mm on the other.

Lets call it a work in progress for now
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:34 AM   #243
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:52 AM   #244
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measure once cut twice ... or something like that

It doesn't look that c0ck-eyed in the shell and as late shells (mine is a 96) are not known for being overly straight from the factory it might be as much the shell that is not completely straight as well.

I have a plan B for this which I will try next time I get some garage time.

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Old 04-03-2019, 04:32 PM   #245
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This shows the section of bulkhead removed and the frame recessed back in to it.



This is the side plate that moved the subframe back 17mm



The more I look at it it seems like the body may be the issue as on both sides the frame is touching the top corner of the inner wing under the bulkhead crossmember (behind the top right Hydragas retaining plate bolt hole - there is a welded in captive nut that is the issue). I think that I will need to let in a little bit of a box to allow the frame to move back properly. I will also have to let in some for the rear top arm pivot shaft nut to go in to. With the frame not hitting the body and sitting slightly askew I should be able to straighten the frame up properly. Also it will allow a few more mm of rearward movement in the frame. If I can get it back 25mm on both sides I will be happy - 30mm and I'll be delighted .

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Old 04-03-2019, 05:34 PM   #246
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Looking good, is there still plenty of room for the steering rack?
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:23 PM   #247
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Looking good, is there still plenty of room for the steering rack?
Yes, it's only moving the Watsons frame to where the Custom-Minis frame sat so the steering rack has in effect not moved between the two frames. I think if I get passed 25mm back there will start to be some interference between the rack and the toeboard.

I've spoke to Geoff Watson and he will do me some fresh side plates so the plan is to slot the new holes I've made so I can slide the frame backwards and forwards to where I want it then mark up the side plates and transfer the hole positions to the fresh new plates which then should bolt the frame exactly where I want it..... that's the plan anyway !!
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:44 PM   #248
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I'd shaved down the top arm pivot shaft and nut in the hope I could get enough clearance but it's very tight



I've bent a piece of 1.5mm steel which will eventually be trimmed down to fill in the hole in the bulkhead



The bits I've already cut out my frame are still not enough to clear the gear cable bracket but these cut outs are already flush with the bulkhead. It looks like I'll either need to put a box the bulkhead to clear the bracket (see earlier posts about this) or see if there is any way to modify or remake the bracket. I have spoken with jondrane about what he did with this on his Watsons/AWD build and he didn't cut his frame, he just made a new gear cable bracket.



Hopefully I'll get a bit of time at the garage on Saturday to see if I can sort out the frame position a bit better.

Last edited by Oz; 08-03-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:47 PM   #249
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Also before I finalise the frame position I ought to remember to refit the steering rack first
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Old 08-03-2019, 05:49 AM   #250
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Why can't I see any pics? Complete blank space where link is supposed to be...but when I try to quote the message link is there https://www.16vminiclub.com/picture....&pictureid=895 and again it doesn't work?
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:36 AM   #251
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Why can't I see any pics? Complete blank space where link is supposed to be...but when I try to quote the message link is there https://www.16vminiclub.com/picture....&pictureid=895 and again it doesn't work?
I'm not really sure you are not the first to say they don't always show. They are working for me, I simply copy and paste the address from the Album they are save in.

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Old 09-03-2019, 07:07 AM   #252
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I'm not really sure you are not the first to say they don't always show. They are working for me, I simply copy and paste the address from the Album they are save in.
All I could think of is to try in different browser but that didn't help either
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:30 AM   #253
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I got a few hours at the garage yesterday. I made up some mock up plates out of some 1.5mm sheet I had and slotted the shock mount holes which meant I was able to slide the frame back and forth to get it aligned in the body



I had to cut out some more metal around the bulkhead:

At the inner wing join, I will have to put in little boxes to clear top arm pivot bolt and top spring retainer plate bolt



and the steering rack mount was hitting the recess for the Mini steering rack so out came the grinder again



The frame is definitely back a bit further compared to the picture posted earlier



I tried my wings and front panel on just as a reference and was quite pleasantly surprised. The engine sits a bit high in the Watsons frame so I will try putting spacers under the mounts to lower the engine/box a little in the frame







The rad is still the issue. It pushes the front panel out but I reckon by redesigning the Watsons removeable transmission mounting side bar set up to be like AWDs I think the rad will go in as it is being stopped from going back further by the side bar.




The transfer housing/propshaft output flange is in about the right place



I was expecting to have to have use a small extension to the wings and bonnet of about 2 inches but seeing this I think I may still be able to get it under a standard round nose if I can get the engine low enough.

Last edited by Oz; 14-03-2019 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 14-03-2019, 04:28 PM   #254
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I thought this comparison was interesting, it shows how much extra room in front of the engine the Watsons frame allows which is one of the main reasons the extended front is 90mm (or 110mm in my case) and thus how by moving the frame back in the car and using the tricks that the Allspeed guys are using to get their motors under a standard front end that there is actually scope to get a vtec under a standard length front using the K series Metro frame. The subframe is the same one used in both photos (the B20 head is smaller than the B16 Vtec head but it does still show how things sit as the cam pulley end is the same width in both heads) !

Before



After




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Old 14-03-2019, 08:49 PM   #255
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What’s the plans for the pedals? I’ve got another steering rack coming that I’m going to try and fit in somehow, the metro one I took out seems to have vanished into thin air
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