Thorn in my side with VVC - Page 2

gadget555 · 28-02-2014, 08:19 PM

The tb that I have doesn't have an IVAC on it and it only has one hole in as well, where the 52mm one has 2 one for the IVAC and another for a breather on the rocker cover so if I fit it I would need a small filter on the rocker cover and a new pipe making up between the IVAC and the tb as the take off is in a slightly different place.

Small update UPS turned up with a box

Look what I found inside

Made a small boo boo and had to order a few more fittings as I had miscounted what I needed for the fuel line the other ones are for the front brakes and the clutch. The company I used is called Torques on fleabay only ordered them Wednesday very good delivery times to the very north of Scotland none of this pish that it is extra and it will take a week because of where I choose to live just have to get round to making them up now

Gadget

gadget555 · 25-03-2014, 08:48 PM

Hi guys here's a bit of an update not much has moved forward as I have been deciphering my wiring loom because it came out of a tf it didn't have a body plug that I could work from just a load of wires that had been cut from the donor car, it doesn't look very good at the moment but this is a dry build to get everything fitted and working then stripped down to do the bodywork over next winter without having to do any cutting or welding to new paint work.

I'm using the fuse box from the engine bay that came with some other bits that I have to power everything.

This isn't it's final position just convenient for positioning.

Here's inside a relay module, bottom right starter, top right fuel pump and top left energises the injectors and lambda sensors.

Here's a clip of what happens where the key fob isn't pressed and the the ignition is turned on it sets off the alarm function or something, you can here the 5 as clicking until you turn off the ignition and re-press the alarm fob. When you turn the ignition on nothing happens to the other relays ie the fuel pump should prime then the other relay should energise the other things I think, When I have checked the relay coils to see if or when they get power the ones for the fuel pump and injectors have power to them all the time but they won't throw, the one for the starter works how it should as when you turn the key to start the relay energises and sends power to the starter motor. So I have 1 circuit that seems to work out of 3, I'm not sure how the others are supposed to work with them having power to them all the time any help on this will be grateful, it is not in a position for it to be started yet although I do have a pump connected to see if it primes or runs which it doesn't.

cheers Gadget.

MiniLandy · 25-03-2014, 10:29 PM

Fuuuck, not looking forward to doing my loom after seeing this

minidarren83 · 26-03-2014, 03:45 AM

I couldn't tell from the video but do you have the immobiliser ring fitted the the steering column. I could be wrong but I think the immobiliser works by letting the starter work but not the pump or injectors and the transponder is in the key which is a separate system to the fob alarm system so if the receiver ring is not plugged in and near the ignition switch you will get just what you are getting energising starter but no other systems

gadget555 · 26-03-2014, 08:43 AM

Interesting point there Minidarren I hadn't thought about that, I've had a look at the keys and taken 1 apart and there's no transponder in the key or plastic holder for it and checking through the diagrams again I can't find anything that relates to another immobiliser on the ignition barrel. If it does/had an immobiliser on it, the barrel stayed on the car which is now bake bean cans!

or so I thought pmsl

picKup · 26-03-2014, 09:01 AM

You can work without the imobilisor ring, I do at the minute on my pickup.
The downside is that the alarm will re imobilise it self after 10 seconds or so if it does not detect teh transponder near by and the 5AS will start making a beeping sound.
But you then lock and unlock the 5AS with the keyfob, the beeping stops and you can start the engine.

picKup · 26-03-2014, 09:30 AM

I have just been looking through this diagram which can be useful:
http://www.alcester-racing-sevens.co...20Diagrams.pdf
However it looks like they have got rid of the Starter Relay control from the 5AS and just have the input to the relay controlled from the starter key.
However it does compress the wholes cars wiring into a couple of pages which could be easier to understand??

gadget555 · 26-03-2014, 10:34 AM

My 5 as unit doesn't re immobilize after 10 sec it just stays off until you press the lock button on the fob, I must have it wired up wrong somewhere if it supposed to auto arm after the ignition is turned off. Also is there supposed to be a switching feed from the 5as to the hazard switch to flash the indicators when you set the alarm off?

ardonfast · 26-03-2014, 10:41 AM

Is Darren refuring to a circular ring that sits around the barrel and plugs into the loom,
Do rover have them?
I by no means no this is any use but have found these rings,

picKup · 26-03-2014, 10:43 AM

I dont think you connect to the flasher unit, but directly to the indicator bulb circuits:
http://www.mgfcar.de/schedules/sb29.jpg

The 5AS sorts out the flashing and connecting the bulbs to +Ve. You dont need it but it can be useful to know when you lock/unlock the car. But you need to then play with the door/boot/bonnet switches as the lights wont flash properly unless the alarm thinks that all of the doors are shut!
http://www.mgfcar.de/schedules/sb16.jpg

picKup · 26-03-2014, 10:45 AM

When I say it re imobilises, I dont think it clicks, but Im sure if you go to start it after about 10 seconds or so, the 5AS starts beeping.

richie08 · 26-03-2014, 12:45 PM

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if I've missed this. But when you first connect up the battery, you need to sync the 5as by pressing unlock 5 times, then lock. Have you done this?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

minidarren83 · 26-03-2014, 01:01 PM

My engine was taken from a 02 zr160 mems3 engine and this is my immobiliser ring it fits around the ignition barrel and is what looks to be a wire coil

It's wire colours are red and grey/ purple and white and goes like it goes to the green plug pins 11/12

gadget555 · 26-03-2014, 05:55 PM

I have checked all through my wiring diagrams but can't find anything that relates to any immobiliser that goes to the steering column or involves the keys, My engine and loom come from a 03 plate mg tf 160, so I don't know if the were only fitted to the other mg's.

ardonfast · 26-03-2014, 06:10 PM

the key turns around in lock and it turns a magnetic file in that box,
same as programing a new blank key in a sertain amount of times the key takes on the code into it, don't no if you no that, but just had to say,

25-03-2014, 08:48 PM	#17
gadget555 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Strichen Aberdeenshire Posts: 1,379 Subframe: Watson CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: K maps 160 Race	Hi guys here's a bit of an update not much has moved forward as I have been deciphering my wiring loom because it came out of a tf it didn't have a body plug that I could work from just a load of wires that had been cut from the donor car, it doesn't look very good at the moment but this is a dry build to get everything fitted and working then stripped down to do the bodywork over next winter without having to do any cutting or welding to new paint work. I'm using the fuse box from the engine bay that came with some other bits that I have to power everything. This isn't it's final position just convenient for positioning. Here's inside a relay module, bottom right starter, top right fuel pump and top left energises the injectors and lambda sensors. Here's a clip of what happens where the key fob isn't pressed and the the ignition is turned on it sets off the alarm function or something, you can here the 5 as clicking until you turn off the ignition and re-press the alarm fob. When you turn the ignition on nothing happens to the other relays ie the fuel pump should prime then the other relay should energise the other things I think, When I have checked the relay coils to see if or when they get power the ones for the fuel pump and injectors have power to them all the time but they won't throw, the one for the starter works how it should as when you turn the key to start the relay energises and sends power to the starter motor. So I have 1 circuit that seems to work out of 3, I'm not sure how the others are supposed to work with them having power to them all the time any help on this will be grateful, it is not in a position for it to be started yet although I do have a pump connected to see if it primes or runs which it doesn't. cheers Gadget. Last edited by gadget555; 12-07-2017 at 07:46 AM.

26-03-2014, 10:41 AM	#24
ardonfast Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: dunkeswell airfeald devon Posts: 7,856 Subframe: AMT CC: 2000 Make: Vauxhall ECU: dizzy/webers	Is Darren refuring to a circular ring that sits around the barrel and plugs into the loom, Do rover have them? I by no means no this is any use but have found these rings, __________________ "yuck ,more like a 3 r2" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tb261HwQNDQ SAY WHAT YOU BELEVE,,BELEVE WHAT YOU LIKE, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3JhaTwP7uuk

26-03-2014, 06:10 PM	#30
ardonfast Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: dunkeswell airfeald devon Posts: 7,856 Subframe: AMT CC: 2000 Make: Vauxhall ECU: dizzy/webers	the key turns around in lock and it turns a magnetic file in that box, same as programing a new blank key in a sertain amount of times the key takes on the code into it, don't no if you no that, but just had to say, __________________ "yuck ,more like a 3 r2" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tb261HwQNDQ SAY WHAT YOU BELEVE,,BELEVE WHAT YOU LIKE, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3JhaTwP7uuk

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28-02-2014, 08:19 PM	#16
gadget555 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Strichen Aberdeenshire Posts: 1,379 Subframe: Watson CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: K maps 160 Race	The tb that I have doesn't have an IVAC on it and it only has one hole in as well, where the 52mm one has 2 one for the IVAC and another for a breather on the rocker cover so if I fit it I would need a small filter on the rocker cover and a new pipe making up between the IVAC and the tb as the take off is in a slightly different place. Small update UPS turned up with a box Look what I found inside Made a small boo boo and had to order a few more fittings as I had miscounted what I needed for the fuel line the other ones are for the front brakes and the clutch. The company I used is called Torques on fleabay only ordered them Wednesday very good delivery times to the very north of Scotland none of this pish that it is extra and it will take a week because of where I choose to live just have to get round to making them up now Gadget

26-03-2014, 03:45 AM	#19
minidarren83 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Essex Posts: 531 Subframe: Home Made CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: Standard	I couldn't tell from the video but do you have the immobiliser ring fitted the the steering column. I could be wrong but I think the immobiliser works by letting the starter work but not the pump or injectors and the transponder is in the key which is a separate system to the fob alarm system so if the receiver ring is not plugged in and near the ignition switch you will get just what you are getting energising starter but no other systems

26-03-2014, 08:43 AM	#20
gadget555 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Strichen Aberdeenshire Posts: 1,379 Subframe: Watson CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: K maps 160 Race	Interesting point there Minidarren I hadn't thought about that, I've had a look at the keys and taken 1 apart and there's no transponder in the key or plastic holder for it and checking through the diagrams again I can't find anything that relates to another immobiliser on the ignition barrel. If it does/had an immobiliser on it, the barrel stayed on the car which is now bake bean cans! or so I thought pmsl

26-03-2014, 09:01 AM	#21
picKup Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Leicester Posts: 966 Subframe: Home Made CC: 1796 Make: Rover ECU: rover	You can work without the imobilisor ring, I do at the minute on my pickup. The downside is that the alarm will re imobilise it self after 10 seconds or so if it does not detect teh transponder near by and the 5AS will start making a beeping sound. But you then lock and unlock the 5AS with the keyfob, the beeping stops and you can start the engine.

26-03-2014, 09:30 AM	#22
picKup Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Leicester Posts: 966 Subframe: Home Made CC: 1796 Make: Rover ECU: rover	I have just been looking through this diagram which can be useful: http://www.alcester-racing-sevens.co...20Diagrams.pdf However it looks like they have got rid of the Starter Relay control from the 5AS and just have the input to the relay controlled from the starter key. However it does compress the wholes cars wiring into a couple of pages which could be easier to understand??

26-03-2014, 10:34 AM	#23
gadget555 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Strichen Aberdeenshire Posts: 1,379 Subframe: Watson CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: K maps 160 Race	My 5 as unit doesn't re immobilize after 10 sec it just stays off until you press the lock button on the fob, I must have it wired up wrong somewhere if it supposed to auto arm after the ignition is turned off. Also is there supposed to be a switching feed from the 5as to the hazard switch to flash the indicators when you set the alarm off?

26-03-2014, 10:43 AM	#25
picKup Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Leicester Posts: 966 Subframe: Home Made CC: 1796 Make: Rover ECU: rover	I dont think you connect to the flasher unit, but directly to the indicator bulb circuits: http://www.mgfcar.de/schedules/sb29.jpg The 5AS sorts out the flashing and connecting the bulbs to +Ve. You dont need it but it can be useful to know when you lock/unlock the car. But you need to then play with the door/boot/bonnet switches as the lights wont flash properly unless the alarm thinks that all of the doors are shut! http://www.mgfcar.de/schedules/sb16.jpg

26-03-2014, 10:45 AM	#26
picKup Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Leicester Posts: 966 Subframe: Home Made CC: 1796 Make: Rover ECU: rover	When I say it re imobilises, I dont think it clicks, but Im sure if you go to start it after about 10 seconds or so, the 5AS starts beeping.

26-03-2014, 12:45 PM	#27
richie08 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Ayrshire, Scotland Posts: 791 Subframe: Other CC: 1396 Make: Rover ECU: Rover mems	I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if I've missed this. But when you first connect up the battery, you need to sync the 5as by pressing unlock 5 times, then lock. Have you done this? Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

26-03-2014, 01:01 PM	#28
minidarren83 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Essex Posts: 531 Subframe: Home Made CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: Standard	My engine was taken from a 02 zr160 mems3 engine and this is my immobiliser ring it fits around the ignition barrel and is what looks to be a wire coil It's wire colours are red and grey/ purple and white and goes like it goes to the green plug pins 11/12

26-03-2014, 05:55 PM	#29
gadget555 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Strichen Aberdeenshire Posts: 1,379 Subframe: Watson CC: 1800 Make: Rover ECU: K maps 160 Race	I have checked all through my wiring diagrams but can't find anything that relates to any immobiliser that goes to the steering column or involves the keys, My engine and loom come from a 03 plate mg tf 160, so I don't know if the were only fitted to the other mg's.