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Old 07-11-2004, 09:30 PM   #16
Richspec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mininut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richspec
So what you are saying is that the race frame isn't strong enough to use on the road but is expected to be ok for use on track
That can't be right
Surely track use puts more strain on components than road use.
Rich, can you please explain to me how many "Race Tracks" you've seen or been on that have pot holes? other than the illegal ones of course :roll:

And secondly, the simple fact that the quote came from a competitor that if forever commenting on AMT products is ridicules.

And finally, I don't believe that many (if any) AMT framed minis have been rallied, this is simply because they are not designed to do so. The race frame is made for track cars, i.e. no bumps. I'm sure if you ask AMT what the difference is that you will get a more meaningful answer.

Oh and lets not forget my mate told me that his mates other mate, has got a mate that snapped an "Allspeed" frame :roll: I think you understand what I'm saying.

M.
Elvington (my most visited circuit) is not as smooth as say Castle combe, neither was Binbrook It can't be right that the race frame cannot handle potholes, which are the most severe thing on the road, what about going over the kerbs at the circuit or an 'unplanned excursion' into the kitty litter or across the grass?
I'm getting the impression that the top race arm (not the road one) may be a tad suspect as I'm led to believe :roll:
Its hopefully not going to be an issue, as i might be getting replacement top arms made.

The quote on miniclassic you mean?

finally yes i know what your saying, as Matt said its not the place to spread unsupported rumours

PS it better had be strong as my new evolution of the mini will be road legal although 90% track use

Rich
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Old 08-11-2004, 12:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richspec
what about going over the kerbs at the circuit or an 'unplanned excursion' into the kitty litter or across the grass?
Only bad racers do that!

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Old 08-11-2004, 12:44 AM   #18
Richspec
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Default off track.


Even that german has to find the limits somehow

Going off topic but if theres any bit i would beef up on the AMT frames its the plate that the tie bar mounts through, mine is bent, i suspect its flexing under pressure, possibly giving rise to the problems i had with the tracking wandering, just my feelings of course. All i intend to do is weld another flat piece on possibly with a small 90 deg lip to stop it flexing.

Rich
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mininut
And finally, I don't believe that many (if any) AMT framed minis have been rallied, this is simply because they are not designed to do so.

You're just talking about the Race frame, or the road frame aswell?
We're getting the indication that a frame designed for rallying is the strongest, one designed for typical road use is the intermediate, and then race-only use is the weaker of the three...
So, is an AMT frame used on the road insufficiently strong- as it was only proven for race use? Or are we just talking about the race frame?



Finally, If something like a top arm is bent, is it defined as 'broken' or not? It might not have structurally failed, but it has indeed failed from a material /strength/overload aspect...
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Old 08-11-2004, 02:34 PM   #20
mininut
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IIRC

There are two, one for road, and one for track. The road frame deals with pot holes and the like. The race frame is made only for race tracks (Not Rallying, as track and rally stages are two different things)!!

You wouldn't drive a formula ford on the road would you? I don't think that suspension is designed to travel as much as a road car and would break too.

Come on guys, use your heads!! it doesn't take a lot to see that track cars have very little suspension travel. Put one on the road and suspension WILL fail (it's not what it's designed for)

If you want more details then ask AMT.

M.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:07 PM   #21
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Just let me clear something up. The race frame is not designed for the road, simply because you will never get the suspension to work properly i.e. the car has to be so low for the top suspension arm to work with the shock absorber that you would probably rip the exhaust off. We initially designed it for hill climbing and sprint use hence there are'nt any speed humps at these circuits. After all what would be the point of making two frames for the same purpose. The issue with the top arms on the race frame is that the coil-over is positioned to the side and not over the ball joint as on the road one so this creates a different load on the rear arm and this was an issue with Graham from Manchester, his arms had indeed bent at the rear but we have never this issue with anybody elsees race frame but Graham had used his on the road and the others hadnt but when Graham sent his arms back for us to view, we noticed that he had been running his rose joints right at the end of the rod which may have contributed to the higher bending load, When we made the new ones for him we noticed that he wanted them making a lot longer than the ones we supplied which tells me that for him to get the suspension to work on the road he had been running the top arms so far out to get the suspension to work properly that this may have been contributing to the bending of the rear arm and after sending the new arms out which were a lot longer we had a report that he was bending the rose joint so he was still running the suspension wrong as usually you have to saw a bit off the rear arm depending on what hubs you are using. PS enough said my fingers have gone numb. PS I try to help everybody out when they purchase my products.
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Old 08-11-2004, 08:54 PM   #22
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I'm probably not going to help matters any, but in defence of Andy -

Okay, so there might be an issue with the arms on the race frame, under certain circumstances....

Why is everyone worried??!

Even mass manufacturers make parts for cars that fail under certain circumstances - ie when used for applications they werent intended for. You know big car companies, that SHOULD have more money to throw at research and development.

I think the bottom line here is - things break on cars

I mean any Mini with a big\powerful engine in it will be driven hard most of the time. What happens when you push anything to the limit, too much of the time. Bad stuff! Yeah, thats my technical term...

Take any production car and hammer it around all the time. Stuff will break. By breaking I mean fudging up in general, not just snapping!

Just my 2 pence worth (not really even worth that I suppose, as I have no engineering background whatsoever, however I think I've got some common sense and a fair bit of reasoning\understanding)

Andy nevermind these people - at least AMT has a better record than the likes of Zcars and their bike engined, chain snapping, looney tins. We all know they don't work half the time....

Kevin
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:01 PM   #23
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Out of the 100's of AMT frames made and sold across the world, has anyone in this community that WE know had a problem with their road AMT frame?? No... I didn't think so. :roll:

People are always too eager to slate a good product, especially competitors in the hope that they can take some business.

M.
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:18 PM   #24
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Only problem is if I was going to go the Vauxhall route, I would have wanted the AMT race frame.

However I don't like the idea of riipping my exhaust apart cos it's too low. Nor do I like the idea of having to trailer my Mini to oocasional track days

Oh well, back to the "piddly" front mounted, FWD, R1 engined plan then...

I hate when this happens on this forum. The rumours or the exagerated truth spreads about certain occurances to do with frames\kits. We should all be ashamed of ourselves

Kevin
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:16 PM   #25
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It sounds like you will mainly be using it on the road, so why don't you just get their road frame? The biggest difference is the suspension set up, and whatever frame you get, you will not be configuring the suspension for race only if you are going to use it on the road.
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadH
It sounds like you will mainly be using it on the road, so why don't you just get their road frame? The biggest difference is the suspension set up, and whatever frame you get, you will not be configuring the suspension for race only if you are going to use it on the road.
For a change, I have to agree chadH
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:31 PM   #27
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You feeling alright, Maz?!?

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Old 08-11-2004, 10:34 PM   #28
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:P
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:56 PM   #29
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Dunno...

You do have a point Chad.

It's a tough choice here... I've sort of gone off the VTEC just due to the sheer cost of the engines and the cost of squeezing more hp's outta those crazy engines. Also the complicated ecu malarky - unless you could get a megasquirt to run it all, or cant use carbs, I'm not intersted!

Also, it looks like Richspec had a hard time cramming his XE into that clubman fronted Mini. Reason for the race frame was I wanted a low Mini, but I never actually knew the race frame would make it that low!

As far as I can tell the R1 engine transplant might just be that bit easier. Just the initial costs of a whole engine and the special gearbox to worry about.... hey if I get bored of that I can always move onto a "real" engine cant I? Not much a student with a mortgage can do (I live in Scotland, houses are cheap).

Kevin
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Old 09-11-2004, 07:52 AM   #30
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if Andy has sold at least a hundred frames thats a grand each mmmm ,,,,fu me Andy got any jobs going ?
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