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Old 08-02-2017, 02:22 PM   #16
edk83
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That's it, not a huge amount higher boiling point than water and oat under pressure, less pressure has to be good though.

I've read a lot of posts saying its not needed and the slightly higher temp would be really bad which I can understand people's thought. I have not read any posts from people actually using it saying it's caused any problems though so worth giving it a try I think.

I'd post my head output temp but engine is not in the car yet, seeing as it's dry and wont need any flushing now would be the time
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Old 24-09-2017, 05:34 PM   #17
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Another article on this topic. Seems to know what he's talking about, though it may not add much to what's been shared already.






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Old 24-09-2017, 09:13 PM   #18
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I have read that 3 times now and it just reads "blah blah blah" to me.

I'll stick to water and antifreeze thanks.
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Old 24-09-2017, 09:16 PM   #19
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I've not driven the Allegro out of first gear yet but I've had it running for quite some time in the garage on the Evans stuff.

With it running, reving it and no air coming through the rad it gets to about 100c on the digital gauge and seems to stay there. Soon as I flick the ebay rad fan on it will come down to about 90c fairly quickly. My manifold is rather close to the rad and the fan is only covering the other half. So I reckon once it's moving and the entire rad is being cooled it'll be fine.

I have taken the cap off the header tank with the coolant pretty hot, it's quite odd, no pressure release at all.

So yes I think it does run hotter due to the liquid not cooling as well as water. But it does seem to be happily within limits even with my manifold setup and the complete lack of pressure has to be a good thing?

Worth the extra cash? Maybe if it lasts 10 years and there is less wear happening in the head, we've all seem how well water cuts under pressure.

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Old 25-09-2017, 07:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoaty View Post
I have read that 3 times now and it just reads "blah blah blah" to me.



I'll stick to water and antifreeze thanks.


Ha ha. Turns out to be win-win. Most seem to think the old (and cheap) way is best. Time will tell....


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Old 11-10-2017, 06:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Pountney View Post
Gents,
I've worked in cooling system design for Ford for a long time. We've looked at alternative cooling fluids for all sorts of products from high performance to trucks to budget cars and our conclusion has always been that the best fluid is 40% OAT coolant and 60% water which is what pretty much every OEM uses.
Car cooling systems are usually (but not always) limited by the ability to get the heat from the radiator material into the airstream and not by getting the heat transfer ability of the coolant. 40/60 coolant has a specific heat capacity of 3.6kJ/kg/degC which is actually worse than plain water at around 4.2 but better than a light oil like ATF at about 2.8.
It'll be interesting to see how you get on but I suspect all that will happen is you will end up being able to run hotter.
Best wishes,
Cliff
What's the thinking on setting the volume of the coolant solution? Is there much of an advantage in just increasing the volume of coolant and having greater variability in the flow rate?

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Old 11-10-2017, 12:19 PM   #22
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I'd say so, normally adding more coolant means a bigger rad as your not just going to add extra pipework for the fun of it?
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:54 PM   #23
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The other day I noticed that I'd forgotten to put a hose clip back on, the small pipe that goes into the head / intake from the rad top pipe.

If that had been water and coolant I'm pretty sure it would have blown off with the pressure!
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:15 PM   #24
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if thats correct its worth every pennie , its knowing if water would have leaked is the problem?
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edk83 View Post
The other day I noticed that I'd forgotten to put a hose clip back on, the small pipe that goes into the head / intake from the rad top pipe.

If that had been water and coolant I'm pretty sure it would have blown off with the pressure!
Ed, I am trying not to be negative but this is not really a good reason to use this stuff. If it had of leaked, you would be looking at another £50 to refill it. It hasn't even been driven properly yet.

If it was normal water with antifreeze then fitting a clip would cost next to nothing.

These modified cars get swapped and changed about so much I would be crying at dumping the coolant just to alter a pipe.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:10 PM   #26
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I agree totally, and first time it dumps the coolant I'll probably go back to antifreeze.

But I was still quite impressed that its been run upto full temp and the pipe didn't even have a drip coming from it with it just pushed on.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:22 PM   #27
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At the same time if it was water and antifreeze and it had dumped all the coolant, it may have been too late before youíd realise if you were driving.
I agree thatís itís pricy, but if you can build a reliable engine and car then itíll be worthwhile having, itís only when you start having to re-fill it gets pricey.



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Old 06-11-2017, 12:56 PM   #28
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Niannorth,
Sorry I'm not sure I understand your question.
The flow rate is governed by the pump and the circuit restriction. Adding more coolant volume in the flowed circuit will increase the mass being heated and slow down the rate of temperature increase but it will also be slower to recover when off the loud pedal.
This may be off topic but generally the amount of coolant in the degas bottle has to be sufficient that it stays in the bottle long enough for any gas to reach the surface (this is for a degas system like the K series has and not a recovery system like the A series). You can't establish this by calculation, you have to build a bottle and test it.
As a rule of thumb you want about 10% of the total system volume in the bottle below the minimum line and about 10% of the system volume as air above the maximum line. This is just a rule of thumb and many systems will work fine with less.
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:05 PM   #29
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I think you sort of answered my question. I suppose it would add complication to have a water pump with a variable rate of flow with demand determined by temperature/predicted temp rather engine load/speed. I also suppose the thermostat more or less does that and increases the volume of coolant at least at a 'restricted volume / full volume' binary level. It just seams the crudest part of engine design is the coolant, when we have all this fluid/gas dynamics stuff going on with the combustion chambers etc, but then I suppose if it's good enough....
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:47 PM   #30
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The problem always comes back to money particularly in the small car segments. Some manufacturers are using electric water pumps to replace the mechanical ones particularly on hybrid vehicles. As you point out the advantage is in having a variable control which translates into less parasitic loss for all but the most extreme driving conditions and hence better fuel economy.
There haven't been that many developments in cooling system hardware over the last 30 years. The biggest changes have been in radiator efficiency which has allowed much thinner radiators and in changing to brushless fan motors. I don't think that's laziness in the industry, more down to the fact it is a good system and proving difficult to improve on.
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