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Old 19-01-2017, 08:12 AM   #16
jondrane
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Default Update

Sorry for the time between updates but have been really busy with work the last few months, and i have been trying to get some bits off the car to paint/powder coat. I am hoping to have the shell sprayed inside and out before the summer.

Oz this update has the information on how I connected the MFG hubs to the arms.

The next plan now that I had selected the hubs was to work out the roll centers and suspension arm lengths, I produced a few models out of MFD so that I could play with the angles until happy.



Next was to get the car level and make something to hole the hub at the desired ride height to enable to mocking up of the suspension arms, to ensure the wheels were central to the arches and center line of the car I marked out the garage floor.







With all the measurements checked and double check I started to figure out how to attach the MGF hub to the sub frame, on the MGF it is attached using a top arm similar to the Mini one and two individual rods on the lower side.



I decided to install an on car camber adjuster from rally design to the outboard side of the lower arm, and to install this I had some tubes turned up to fit the adjuster. Since having the tubes turned up, rally design now sell a kit car arm kit which contains these tubes. The thread on these is M18x1.5 and results in a very large rose joint which can with stand high shear forces.



Next I wanted to produce the top suspension arm as this has a fixed outboard mount it would be easier to make and set the hub in position prior to making the bottom arm. For this I used the standard top ball joint on the MGF hub, this enables me to use off the shelf parts when the ball joint wears out. To mount the plate to the ball joint I had a tapered hole machined into some 10mm steel, then using some 1inch mock-up tubing decided on the final shape of the plate. I made a cardboard template which had legs which on would sit inside the tubing.



With the top of the hub in a fixed location I could begin to mock-up the lower arm using some ERW tubing (only for mocking up). Using the weld in thread inserts from McGill Motorsport I made small 2in tubes with these welded in, these would provide the inboard mounting position for the arms. During the arm manufacture I only had one side of the frame mount tacked on, this enabled me to have a repeatable mounting point. With the rose joints fitted to the inboard and outboard positions I took measurements of the required tube length and angles, to achieve a good fit between the tubes I used an online coping calculator.





Once I had finalized the Mock up arms I transferred these to 1inch CDS tubing, and to ensure I could make both sided the same I marked these out on some MDF. Trimming the 10mm steel plates to shape took some time. Once all the arms were made with CDS I gave them a quick blast over with some primer to protect them, while I finished the rest of the build.









With the arm structures complete I turned my attention back to the MGF hubs and bolting the M18 rose joint and steering to it. I had a bush turned up to reduce the size of the M18 rose joint down the M12, this enabled me to use the threaded hole which was originally used to mount the lower suspension link. The original steering rod used on the rear of the MGF used a tapered ball joint and thus the hole in the hub was also tapered. I did not want to use a one off bolt to mount this to the hub, so I drilled out the tapered hole and fitted another bush to reduce the size, while producing both bushes I also incorporated a chambered edge for misalignment.







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Old 24-01-2017, 01:32 PM   #17
jondrane
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Default rocker arm update

With the Rod ends in the final positions, I set out making the rear track adjusted. For this I made some plates to weld to the arms and mocked up an adjustable link. First I had the rod end mounted on the outside of the hub this made the bolt head close to the rim, so I moved it to the other side.







The next item to get fitted in the correct place was the rear diff, now the hubs were in the right place I could get the drive shaft angles correct. I was concerned that if the diff was to low the CV boots would touch the frame. I got a tube bent up to bridge the two upper frame rails, and I planned to hang the diff off this. Then use a tube at the rear to stabilize the rear of the diff.



I made a mount that bolted to the existing location on the top of the diff, I used a tube with an ID which suited a powerflex bush. I was not fully decided on the height of the front of the diff yet and thus didnít make the frame side mount, as I didnít have the engine in it was difficult to get the driveshaft angles. On the rear of the diff I made some plates which also used the original mount locations, and then again used a tube mounted to plate on the frame side.











The next job now that enough of the frame was in place was to decide how to mount the shock absorbers, I knew I was going to use a push-rod system but wasnít sure on where to mount the rocker arm. I trialed a few different ways using tacked on angle to simulate the mounted position, I finally settled on the rockers on the top rails. This might cause issues later on with the fuel tank etc but is the easiest solution as the shock is in line with the push-rod and suspension arms.







With my final layout decided I had to figure out the rocker ratio, and there is a very long formula which required information that was not available to me. So I decided to go down the trial and error route, using some MDF I trailed different ratios. The key here was to get the correct suspension movement range without causing the shock to be moving too quickly or the rocker to roll over. I made up a slave shock with some bits of tube I had laying around. I marked this up with the length from eye end to eye end, this enabled me to record the shock compression against hub travel. I had decided that I would have 4 inches of suspension travel 1 in droop and 3 in compression, around the ride height position that I measured prior to strip. This trial and error literally took me two weeks to get right, and even then I was still worried I had got it wrong. Had to get one of my mates over and explain it all, just for a sanity check. I even made some notes!









Having decided on the ratio I set about mocking up something a bit sturdier to use as a base for making the suspension arm mounts for the push-rods. I made some plates which were the same ratio as my MFD testers, and mounted these to the frame. Using two tubes and some rose joints I tacked some mounting plates to the lower arm and checked the alignment of the rocker and mounts. I also had to install the drive shafts to ensure I had no issues with the push-rods touching them.









The next hurdle was to decide how I would make to rockers and how to mount them on the frame. I wanted to incorporate a sealed bearing on the rocker arm and looked into pre-machined housing, but found nothing that would suit my situation. Again I made some sketches and took them to get machined, while I waited for the bearings to turn up. I also had an aluminum blank turned up to fit in the bearing houses, so that when I welded them they didnít distort. Until the rockers were made the frame mounts had to wait. When I got the housing I cut the plates and welded the rockers up.







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Old 24-01-2017, 01:40 PM   #18
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Nice work
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Old 24-01-2017, 04:26 PM   #19
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My brain hurts
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Old 27-01-2017, 02:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
My brain hurts
i was thinking the same, then saw your post,,
then i felt normal
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Old 27-01-2017, 02:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardonfast View Post
i was thinking the same, then saw your post,,
then i felt normal
I'm not sure I qualify as "normal" !!
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Old 28-01-2017, 12:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
I'm not sure I qualify as "normal" !!
I had self doubt but the remeberd it was you that was exsported to alkatraz
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Old 28-01-2017, 08:12 AM   #23
jondrane
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Yeah the rocker setup and ratio took me ages to work out. I am really happy with how it came out though, the rear suspension feels a lot better than my previous coil-overs. The only issue I did have was I managed to bend one of the pushrods within the first 100 miles on the road. Hit a big pot hole going a bit to fast! I have since made them out of thicker walled tube and stronger steel.


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Old 28-01-2017, 01:23 PM   #24
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got to say, id have gave up on that shell long ago lol fair play.
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Old 28-01-2017, 08:26 PM   #25
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Just looked at your ratio and angle calculations and the way you came up with damper compression and template mock ups. You are a clever man Mr!
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Old 07-02-2017, 01:18 PM   #26
jondrane
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With the Rockers now made I could start the headache that was mounting them, the issue I had is that I wanted to use a slip bushing so that I could still remove them. Also they had to be mounted at an angle to the tube. To get the mounting angles the same on both sides I setup the pillar drill to get the 26 degrees required. To make the rockers removable I welded some machined tubes into the plates, and reamed them to the final required size once cooled.







For the bushes I had some phosphor bronze turned up into a top hat bush, this slides out enabling the rocker to be removed





Now the mounting plates were made I just had to make sure I mounted them in the correct place on the frame, prior to mounting I also profiled the top to make them look a bit better. Using my trust mock-up shock I got them in the correct place ensuring that everything was in line.





In the center of the frame I needed a good solid mount to put both ends of the shocks into. I thought about making something out of sheet steel, but decided that to get something that was strong, small and looked good I needed a machined mount. I am not the best with woodwork, but used MDF (donít laugh!) to form the basic mount that I required prior to taking measurements and drawing it up in CAD. Once in CAD I got a local company to machine this up for me, on their 3 axis machine.











The floor panels that I fitted were in fact one complete floor cut down the tunnel with a plasma cutter prior to leaving British Heritage, this meant the tunnel was not big enough to accommodate the prop and exhaust. I cut the existing tunnel out and widened the opening, using a template I cut the rear heal board to the new improved tunnel size.





From the original pictures of the frame you might have noticed that there was no cut-out for the prop in the front rail. I didnít really know how big the tunnel needed to be when I made the front rail, but after talking to Baily Morris Props I now knew the prop size. I cut some of the front rail away and added a curved section of 5mm steel to form the prop opening.



With the frame out of the car I added all the other bits to see how it all looked out of the car, I was impressed with the few bits of tube I had tacked together.



I looked back at my diff mounts while out of the car and after a trail fit with everything tacked up I decided it was back to the drawing board. This was mainly because with only a single mounting point above the diff could twist easily. I made my Mk2 diff mount which had two mounting points which used poly bushes.





I was now in a place to look at shock absorbers, I took a trip to the Auto sport show to have a chat with a few suppliers and look at their products. I looked at SPAX, ProTech, Bilstien, and Gaz. The Gaz and protech stood out as they were very configurable for the application. In the end I went with the Protech as the Gaz rep could not guarantee the operation of their shocks if I mounted them with the valve above level. I place my order for two 13Ē open shocks and two weeks later these beauties arrived.





I wasted no time in seeing how these looked in the frame



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Old 13-02-2017, 03:39 PM   #27
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very nice work!! following for sure!
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Old 18-02-2017, 02:15 PM   #28
Mini Vlatko
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Very very impressive! Keep up with lots of pics!
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Old 18-02-2017, 03:38 PM   #29
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grate stuff , the pics are a record of build thats finnished now,,
so the burning qwestion for me is?
can you post a vid of it on road with a bit of hot driveing?
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Old 26-02-2017, 06:01 PM   #30
jondrane
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Ok guys so had a few requests for videos, so here is one. Will hopefully post a further update this week.

https://youtu.be/dCPJ5N_rNQQ
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