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Old 04-04-2017, 02:04 AM   #1
AGoaty
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Default Recommended Rover K series turbo build.

Picking up my project at the weekend. Looking at swapping the non VVC engine for a K turbo. I want to build a reliable, high power motor. Not building for max power and must still be usable everyday if needed.

It's rear engined so the turbo will be between the seats! Can anyone see any issue here, like heat???

I have to admit being a novice in turbo technology but it seems the modern thing so comments in lay mans terms please.

I have a spare VVC engine. Is it possible to modify this to run a turbo?
Would it be best to get a Kmaps remap or dyno one?
Can I mount the intercooler under the bonnet and pipe along the cabin to it? If so will it create lag?
Currently running a C6 box. I think this will be great. Wanting to fit a Quaife LSD in to help grip. Is fitting the diesel clutch a good option.
I'm hoping the current engine has 135 cams. Are these a good fitment for this?
Seen others using a VVC head. Is this a good option as I have a spare.

Thanks in advance for any info...
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Last edited by AGoaty; 04-04-2017 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:14 AM   #2
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Looking forward to seeing this, rwd turbo

First off the standard turbo is water cooled so I don't see the position being a problem.

You can run a vvc engine with a turbo but you would have to lower the compression with either the turbo con rods or a decompression plate.

I have found the standard kmap's ecu very good and havent had any issues, emerald is probably better but I wouldn't say it's worth spending the extra unless your looking at alot more power later on.

From what I have seen most people who turbo mgfs run the intercooler at the back with an air feed or a charge cooler so I presume having the boost pipes so long may cause a problem.

I wouldn't bother with the 135 cams as I don't think they give any gains, but a freelander flywheel and a decent diesel clutch should be more than upto the job.

I would say if your going to be happy with around 200bhp stick with a standard turbo engine with the kmaps ecu.

Last edited by Readie; 04-04-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:31 AM   #3
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Exciting! Personally for now id just start with a standard refreshed engine, standard turbo and the more recent K maps ecu for now ( this should be 210bhp ish and with decent traction will make great car that's not lethal!).. maybe a side mounted intercooler with like a mgf style side vent would work.

The only reason i went for the diesel clutch on mine is so it would cope with 2nd gear launches and the cost is no more than a standard clutch ( i paid 20 for a freelander flywheel and 80 for a borg & beck clutch kit)

You can always add the bigger injectors/turbo/ remap/ emerald at a later date! It looks like astra vxr injectors and a gt2560r turbo make around 250bhp on the standard engine

You will also need to buy a boost solenoid ( about 45 mac valve on ebay), boost gauge, fuel pressure regulator ( about 90 for a decent item), fuel rail adapater ( you dont use the turbo fuel rail about 20 from memory), basic intercooler setup and pipe work ( 100-200 depending what you do). Aditional cooling pipework for the water cooling on the turbo and vacuum hoses..

I'm happy to chat on Facebook about it all.. Charly and Darren were both a big help too me!!

Last edited by Chris16v; 05-04-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:00 PM   #4
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Thanks guys.

I was originally going to buy a donor car as see them for sale quite cheap. It seems though there is only a very small amount of parts that I will use from one so don't really see the point.

I was thinking of using the VVC engine I have, but fitting the turbo rods and pistons. My engine is a MEMS 2 so understand the piston tops are thicker on turbo ones (correct me if I'm wrong).

The VVC head I was going to remove the VVC mechanisms and swap to solid cam, hence the 135 cams idea. I understand the VVC exhaust cam is the same profile as these so just swap the inlet side as it has the extra ring on for the cam sensor. I assume porting this will have similar benefits as a N/A engine so intend to do this too.

I have an inlet manifold from a MEMS 2 VVC inc fuel rail. I have sold the injectors though so need to replace them. If fitting Astra VXR ones is an upgrade then that's what I'll get. Is the wiring plug the same?

I assume a 52mm throttle body is needed.

If I don't buy a donor car then I'll need a turbo. I want to fit what ever I choose once and stick with it. If getting a GT2560R turbo is the best, then that's what I'll get. My only concern is, is it reliable and not likely to cause potential problems? In other words has anyone else tried it and not broken anything? What modifications are needed to the turbo exhaust manifold to use this type of turbo?

With the extra power that this has created, is the C6 non U spec gearbox up to the job? I know Charly has the C7 hybrid box but am considering getting a C6 box from a MG ZS 180 as it's a U spec and fitting that to the petrol bellhousing. Maybe just for a bit of piece of mind but again I want to do this job once, even if it means a bit of extra work. I intend on running on 13" wheels and ratio's might but a little short but still has a potential of over 130mph.

Not attempting to put a time scale on this build as I have Phoenix as my toy car. I want to build this engine/gearbox setup and then swap the lot all in one go. I am in no rush, just want to do a good job with reliability in mind.

There are a few FWD Rover K series close to 300bhp out there. I personally think the RWD will help get the power down and potentially be as quick on the drag strip. Time will tell...
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:07 PM   #5
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Wow mate its going to be awesome

Poor Phoenix though!! It will make someone happy
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by AGoaty View Post
I intend on running on 13" wheels and ratio's might but a little short but still has a potential of over 130mph.
I can't answer anything else but I know that 13's don't fit over the MGF rear suspension, it's 14 inch at a minimum
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:23 PM   #7
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I can't answer anything else but I know that 13's don't fit over the MGF rear suspension, it's 14 inch at a minimum
I tried this when I had my TF. If I remember correctly it is the handbrake spring that catches the inside of the wheel. I realise that I'll have to adapt this, but want the 13" wheels so will post what it needs modifying to fit them.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:36 PM   #8
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You can use the VVC engine ( with working VVC, i know emerald have done this) and turbo charge it but you will really need to splash out on a Emerald.. K maps offer a VVC turbo ecu but when i spoke to them direct they said its not worth the hassle and just stick with the standard engine.

The Astra vxr injectors are 470cc over the standard turbo 260cc injectors and are a direct fit into the fuel rail.

I believe my gearbox is C6 trim and with the uprated steel caged bearings/Quiafe and MTF94 gear oil its had loads of stick with no issues.

Im also told a ported non vvc head is about as good as a standard vvc head for flow.. so a ported solid cam vvc head is the way to go but starts getting expensive. Also if your going that far with it you may want to think about forged engine and ductile liners.

Theres also mention about increasing the piston ring gap size, for reliabiltiy for higher boost levels on a standard block
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by AGoaty View Post
I tried this when I had my TF. If I remember correctly it is the handbrake spring that catches the inside of the wheel. I realise that I'll have to adapt this, but want the 13" wheels so will post what it needs modifying to fit them.
The issue I had was the end of the large (forward) suspension arm (which the tie bar bolts through) and bolt fouling the wheel to the point I couldn't get it over the studs properly. I was trying with a 7 spoke Metro GTi wheel which might be a bit thicker than an aftermarket wheel. I never got as far as the handbrake lever. Also the ARB mount looks like it could be a problem. If you can get a 13 on an MGF rear frame then I think a few people would be interested in what you need to do.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Oz View Post
I can't answer anything else but I know that 13's don't fit over the MGF rear suspension, it's 14 inch at a minimum
Put the front wishbones on the back, use front hubs on the back. Enlarge the holes by 2mm on the bottom of the hubs where the rear calipers will be mounted, and make an adjustable tie rod like I have on my build

I'd use a charge cooler air to water and run the plumbing to the front. If you had boost pipes all the way to the front then you will have shed loads of lag! One on lag, use a nice modern turbo that's not to big so it will spool up quick, drivability over power is what I'd recommend.

Last edited by gouldy847; 05-04-2017 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
The issue I had was the end of the large (forward) suspension arm (which the tie bar bolts through) and bolt fouling the wheel to the point I couldn't get it over the studs properly. I was trying with a 7 spoke Metro GTi wheel which might be a bit thicker than an aftermarket wheel. I never got as far as the handbrake lever. Also the ARB mount looks like it could be a problem. If you can get a 13 on an MGF rear frame then I think a few people would be interested in what you need to do.
As I've done, also for the roll bar use the front setup on the rear but you will have to make some mounts for the roll bar bushes as the rear subframe doesn't have them
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoaty View Post
I tried this when I had my TF. If I remember correctly it is the handbrake spring that catches the inside of the wheel. I realise that I'll have to adapt this, but want the 13" wheels so will post what it needs modifying to fit them.
Swap the rear calipers over and it works fine( or swap the but that bolts to the caliper and holds the cable) can't remember which one I did but mine is working fine with 13" metro wheels
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:15 AM   #13
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Cheers for the input guys.

I don't like the big wheels so will find a way to get it on 13's!
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