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Old 22-07-2009, 06:43 PM   #1
mini1
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Default AMT Suspension settings

*CAN THIS BE MADE STICKY??*

As this has been covered before but normally tagged on to a thread with a different title, I thought it may be a good idea to have all the info in one place for everyone, as it seems to be a popular subject!

I was thinking along the lines of people using the AMT frame taking various measurments from point to point so it can be used/compared by anyone using the frame, as this will take different tie bars/bottom arms out of the equation. This is what I thought of based on what Andy S has done (well done mate)

Measurements:
Top arm = centre of rose joint bolt to centre of ball joint

top tie bar = centre of rose joint bolt to centre of bolt (through top arm)

bottom arm = Centre of rose joint bolt to centre of balljoint

tie bar = edge of frame (where tie bar bolts through) to centre bolt (through bottom arm)

Front camber:

Front castor:

Front SAI:

Front toe:

Rear camber:

Rear toe:

Front spring rate:

Rear spring rate:

Corner weights (and if drivers weight has been added)

Ride height (sill edge)

And finally, how the car drives. Even if its bad, it would still be useful as it will highlight where the problems lie. Please add anything else if I've forgotten anything.
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Last edited by mini1; 22-07-2009 at 06:56 PM. Reason: changed wording
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Old 22-07-2009, 07:28 PM   #2
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This is where I mean for the tie bar measurment

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Old 22-07-2009, 08:31 PM   #3
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I'll make it stickied for a while and see what we get.
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Old 22-07-2009, 08:31 PM   #4
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Thanks Rich, you're a star!
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Old 22-07-2009, 09:39 PM   #5
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- Bottom arm = 10 inches long (between rose joint & ball joint)
- Bottom tie bar = 13.375 inches long (between rose joint & 7/16"AF bolt) or 14.375” as per Mini1 description
- Top arm = 6.5 inches long (between rose joint & ball joint)
- Top tie bar = 5.5 inches long (between rose joint & 7/16"AF bolt)
- Top & bottom tie bars are cut by about 0.5 inches each to get them short enough to gain additional +ve castor. It is what it is, no need to measure.
- Dunno what SAI measure is but am using standard Mini swivel hubs so you get what you get.
- ‘Old’ Metro steering arms on Mini hubs (they are longer).
- 0.75 inch -ve camber on front measured as tyrewall offset (2 degs max)
- 0.25 inch -ve camber on rear measured as tyrewall offset (1 deg max)
- 175lb rear springs with 1/3 damping on Gaz
- 500lb front springs with full damping on AVO
- paralel toe at front & rear
- Toyo R888 tyres 185/60 X 13
- Mintex 1144 pads Metro vented disks & calipers
- 0.5 inch rear brake cylinders with modded brake limiting valve.
- Corner weights @ 240kg NSF + 148kg OSR = 388kg and 245kg OSF + 130kg NSR = 375kg which gives total weight 763kg including driver
- Height at sill 195mm front & rear (Std Mini susp should have rear 0.5" - 1" higher than front)
- Quaiffe ATB LSD
- Vizzard design ‘Reverse A Frame’ trailing rear axle.
- 0.75” spacers with spacer hubs make a standard rear with radius arms the same width as front. (no longer used on new axle)

Car handles better than driver drives.
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Old 24-07-2009, 04:14 PM   #6
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Nearly identical to Andy's.

- Bottom arm = 10 inches long (between rose joint & ball joint)
- Bottom tie bar = 13.375 inches long (between rose joint & 7/16"AF bolt) or 14.375” as per Mini1 description
- Top arm = 6.5 inches long (between rose joint & ball joint)
- Top tie bar = 5.5 inches long (between rose joint & 7/16"AF bolt)
- Top & bottom tie bars are cut by about 0.5 inches each to get them short enough to gain additional +ve castor. It is what it is, no need to measure.
- Dunno what SAI measure is but am using standard Mini swivel hubs so you get what you get.
- Cooper S steering arms on Mini hubs
- 0.75 inch -ve camber on front measured as tyrewall offset (2 degs max) - Guessing similar
- 0.25 inch -ve camber on rear measured as tyrewall offset (1 deg max) - Again similar
- 7" 150lb rear springs with 1/3 damping on Offset Protech
- 7" 500lb front springs with full damping on AVO
- paralel toe at front & rear
- Yoko 048r's Med Compound tyres 175/50/13
- Tarox 6 pot vented disks & calipers
- 0.5 inch rear brake cylinders with modded brake limiting valve.
- Corner weights - Havent touched them yet!
- Height at sill 210mm front & 230mm rear
- Quaife ATB LSD
- TDK Rear Beam.
- 5mm spacers with spacer hubs on rear.

Car handles great on the road and track. Can accelerate hard in every gear and have the confidence it will go where you point the wheel.
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Old 25-07-2009, 08:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooler70 View Post
- Tarox 6 pot vented disks & calipers
Gotta be high up on the shopping list for track use / sprinting.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:04 AM   #8
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Just wondering what bottom arms Andy and Pooler70 are using as I tried to get to there 10" with the Minispares adjustable arm but was still 1/4" off.
By the also what wheels are you guy's using? Might be good to add to the list as I am sure different offsets and rim widths would change the feel and handling.
Thanks for posting set up, I am in the middle of changing my set up to yours. Will let you know how I get on.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:01 AM   #9
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I've got the arms that Andy at AMT made as part of the kit.

If 10.25" is the shortest you can got then simply make the top arm 1/4" longer too. The top & bottom tie bars should also be lengthened (by 5/16" ish) otherwise you're adding even more +ve Castor.

Check that your Camber is still 3/4" -ve offset (ie 1.5 - 2 degrees -ve)

Tracking will deffo need adjusting too.
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Bear in mind that these measurements are very much a starting point & you will need to make further adjustments to compensate for other things that you fiddle with.

Eg. When you set your corner weights you might end up with uneven ride heights on the front coilovers. If so, then your bottom arms will need to be set at different lengths in order to get the -ve camber right again.

After spending a fun day with Mini-Sprite on Sunday, we found a few interesting 'cause & effect' issues and had to really think hard about how to sort things. Try setting things up in this order;

i) Put weights in front seat to represent driver
ii) Set Ride Height (front & rear)
iii) Set Susp arm lengths
iv) Do Basic Tracking at front
v) Sort Corner Weights (three short words, but quite a difficult task with engine & driver on same side of car!)*
vi) Do Camber again (I just tinker with bottom susp arm lengths)
vii) Final set-up of Tracking (front & rear)

Don't expect perfection straight out of the garage, you'll still need to do a few hard miles & tweak things to suit your driving style etc.

* For corner weighting I dispense with some of the theory because the big Vaux motor & driver & long driveshaft are all on the O/S of the car. For me the most important thing is to get the front corner weights as near as equal as possible (240kg ish each) & thus stopping the N/S wheel spinning before the O/S. This means that you will probably end up with uneven weight on rears & most likely different ride heights at front (N/S higher than O/S by up to 1 inch). I guess I'm sacrificing a tiny bit of 'perfect' balance in the corners so that the car pulls straight when accelerationg hard.

Last edited by Andy_S; 05-08-2009 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:45 PM   #10
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There's a lot of good info coming into this thread, congratulations all, especially Andy.
Next time I'm working on my car (September hopefully!!) I'll use some of this info
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:06 AM   #11
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I'm sooooooo busy up until october/november time but when I do get a free day I plan to take all the measurements from mine and record them on this thread and then change them to whats been reccomended and see how it feels.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:50 PM   #12
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Thanks Guys this has helped me loads Thanks
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Old 24-10-2010, 03:41 PM   #13
Richspec
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Initial setting up on mine, it'l be interesting to see how it changes
I was able to set the drivers side as per the above settings apart from the top tie bar which was at 6" but the passenger side woudn't have it at all, I was running out of play/slack/movement in the driveshaft. So had to lengthen everything then go back to the other side.

Car - AMT Race frame, with Allspeed driveshafts and CV's

Measurements:
Top arm = 7"

top tie bar = 6.5"

bottom arm = 10.5"

tie bar = bolt to rosejoint - 250mm

Front camber: ?

Front castor: ?

Front SAI

Front toe: not set yet

Rear camber: some

Rear toe: pass

Front spring rate: dunno 'stiff as f***!!'

Rear spring rate: no idea

Corner weights (and if drivers weight has been added)

Ride height (sill edge) .......loads its on castors!
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Old 27-10-2011, 01:57 AM   #14
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these statistics are great help,just goes to prove the angle of the dangle is really important. Thank the almighty for alex isagoniss
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Old 24-10-2012, 10:09 PM   #15
Richspec
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getting there with mine, its taken a lot of adjusting to get some figures..Arms will need remeasuring.

Car - AMT Race frame, with Allspeed driveshafts and CV's

Measurements:
Top arm = 7"

top tie bar =

bottom arm =

tie bar = bolt to rosejoint -

Front camber: -1.125

Front castor: 4.5 degress

Front SAI

Front toe: Parallel

Rear camber: -0.5

Rear Toe: Parallel

Front spring rate: 1000lb, 8 inch faulkners springs

Rear spring rate: not marked, wound spring platform to top of threaded section to try and get some arch clearance.

Corner weights (and if drivers weight has been added)

Ride height (sill edge)
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