16v Mini Club Forums  

Go Back   16v Mini Club Forums > General Public Area > Honda Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2010, 06:29 PM   #31
Matt L
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 110
Subframe: Allspeed
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: Mugen/honda
Default

I've got the EK9 engine and gearbox aswell but in an allspeed subframe with 7x13 wheels, it doesnt torque steer but it does have some bump steer, like the others have said you need alot of caster at least 4/5 degrees, i think most of it is down to the wheels on mine and the rubbish british roads as its fine on the track.
Matt L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2010, 05:07 AM   #32
SUNNY
Member
 
SUNNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Socal
Posts: 51
Subframe: SAE
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard
Send a message via AIM to SUNNY Send a message via MSN to SUNNY Send a message via Yahoo to SUNNY
Default

Wow I am just getting ready to put in a Quaife diff in my car so all of this info is very helpful. My car originally used to dart in different directions all the time until I had the suspension set up properly after that it was much much better. I am running a metro based frame with mini top/bottom arms and mini hub. While I do the diff I am also going to replace the mini hubs with metro hubs.
__________________
A-Series purist are nothin but closet vtec lovers.
SUNNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2010, 03:34 PM   #33
BBriBro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Independence, KY U.S.A.
Posts: 322
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Hondata
Default

I have been fighting this same battle since I built my car, but to be honest I haven't done anything drastic so far, I just live with it. I have the MiniTec subframe, and an OBX LSD, it's a copy of the quaife, which is a torsen just like the OEM type R. It seems that all of us running this type of diff are having some issues. I played around with the castor a bit, but have never had it professionally (accurately) aligned or weighted, I'm hoping that will help quite a bit. Like someone else said, you do get used to it, and it can be kinda fun at times, it certainly gets you "involved" and that's why we built these cars....for entertainment, but with that said, if you shower down on it in a corner, and hit a bump or a rut in the pavement, and there is an oncomming car, if everything happens at once it can scare you. Here is a vid I took earlier this year, Excuse the audio, the car is loud, and the mic on the cell phone cam just couldn't take it, but there are a few good romps where you can see the torque steer, oh and yes yes, i know there is a missed shift at the end !!

BBriBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2010, 07:18 PM   #34
DarrenW
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY View Post
Wow I am just getting ready to put in a Quaife diff in my car so all of this info is very helpful. My car originally used to dart in different directions all the time until I had the suspension set up properly after that it was much much better. I am running a metro based frame with mini top/bottom arms and mini hub. While I do the diff I am also going to replace the mini hubs with metro hubs.
I am running the watsons metro frame with K series stuff and a quaife diff and it is lovely.

Can be a bit of fun when it is on the edge of traction, almost like torque steering in a straight line as one wheel gets more traction than the other, then sometimes the other way

Otherwise is pulls perfectly straight and gets good traction on corners, instead of spinning one wheel.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2010, 07:49 PM   #35
Hayling mini
Senior Member
 
Hayling mini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,134
Subframe: Other
CC: 1340
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Haltech
Default

I have the same wheels 13 x 7 on one of mine & it is awful to drive, I swapped the wheels over to standard sportspack ones & it was a different car to drive. I dont think your wheels will be helping the situation.

Jerry
__________________
12.3 @ 111:) AWD Turbo Mini Estate, building AWD Turbo spaceframe with MattG, in search of 350BHP from a 1.3:)
Estate build diary: http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6952
Hayling mini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2010, 02:19 AM   #36
norcalmini
Member
 
norcalmini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pleasanton,ca
Posts: 40
Subframe: MTB
CC: b16A
Make: Honda
ECU: P09 with vtec mod
Send a message via Yahoo to norcalmini
Default

thanks i will keep everyone updated im going to increase the caster upwards of 5-6 degrees before i decide to have the lsd changed out. When i talked to mini tec bj recomended taking out the type r and replacing it with a phantom grip. i have heard good and bad things about the phantom grip but they totally believe that all the steer is coming from the lsd
norcalmini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2010, 02:07 PM   #37
BBriBro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Independence, KY U.S.A.
Posts: 322
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Hondata
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalmini View Post
.......bj recomended taking out the type r and replacing it with a phantom grip....they totally believe that all the steer is coming from the lsd
They must feel like a broken record, I have heard that over and over from them, and then we all go and do something else

It sounds to me like it's not just that diff in a light car that doesn't work. It's more of a combination of that type of LSD and old fashioned suspension geometry which we make even worse when we put the deep dish wheels on it that doesn't work.
BBriBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2010, 01:58 AM   #38
norcalmini
Member
 
norcalmini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pleasanton,ca
Posts: 40
Subframe: MTB
CC: b16A
Make: Honda
ECU: P09 with vtec mod
Send a message via Yahoo to norcalmini
Default

do we actually know anyone that has a minitec frame with a phantom grip lsd??????? I think im gonna give it a shot. he said thats all they put in there minis now. And yes i agree about the rims. My only option is to send them one of my control arms and have them build some custom ones that are long so i can put a more neg offset rim on, or put a diff brake kit on so i can fit a smaller rim, but im not sure if i want to put smaller rims on
norcalmini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2010, 12:57 PM   #39
Andy_S
Senior Member
 
Andy_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,088
Subframe: AMT
CC: 1998
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: Megasquirt ... kinda
Default

More positive Castor (at least 6 degs) and stiff front springs (450lbs) and equal corner weights up front & you'll find a world of difference.

Not sure what offset the 'deep dish' style wheels are, but anything less than ET10 on a 7" rim will just exagerate your misery because the Mini KPI is less than ideal.

If you really want to be fancy then you'd look to fit spacered rod ends to rid yourself of the remaining bump steer and even a power steering column for those long journeys.

Quaife ATB's in Minis only steer the car if you let them.

Last edited by Andy_S; 20-01-2010 at 01:55 PM.
Andy_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2010, 01:30 PM   #40
cables
Senior Member
 
cables's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: cheshire
Posts: 1,186
Subframe: Allspeed
CC: 1997
Make: Honda
ECU: standard
Send a message via MSN to cables
Default

properly set up suspension is a key factor, my a series engine whitby warrior runs on 8x13in, it has metro hubs, and adjustable bottom arms/tie rods, and i have minimal problems
__________________
If it aint broke......Your not driving hard enough!
cables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2010, 03:46 PM   #41
Oz
Senior Member
 
Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jersey, Channel Islands
Posts: 4,171
Subframe: Other
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: DTA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
More positive Castor (at least 6 degs) and stiff front springs (450lbs) and equal corner weights up front & you'll find a world of difference.

Not sure what offset the 'deep dish' style wheels are, but anything less than ET10 on a 7" rim will just exagerate your misery because the Mini KPI is less than ideal.

If you really want to be fancy then you'd look to fit spacered rod ends to rid yourself of the remaining bump steer and even a power steering column for those long journeys.

Quaife ATB's in Minis only steer the car if you let them.
7x13 Superlights are ET-7 (thats ET minus 7 no ET dash 7 ie more of the wheel is "outside" the hub mounting face than "inside")
__________________
New subframe fitting has begun - slowly

Build Thread - Standard Round Nose with K series subframe build begun
Oz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2010, 04:15 PM   #42
Andy_S
Senior Member
 
Andy_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,088
Subframe: AMT
CC: 1998
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: Megasquirt ... kinda
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
7x13 Superlights are ET-7 (thats ET minus 7 no ET dash 7 ie more of the wheel is "outside" the hub mounting face than "inside")
Yikes!!!

Not good.
Andy_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2010, 05:23 PM   #43
Mark D
Senior Member
 
Mark D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guisborough
Posts: 4,069
Subframe: Home Made
CC: lots
Make: Honda
ECU: DTA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenW View Post
I am running the watsons metro frame with K series stuff and a quaife diff and it is lovely.

Can be a bit of fun when it is on the edge of traction, almost like torque steering in a straight line as one wheel gets more traction than the other, then sometimes the other way

Otherwise is pulls perfectly straight and gets good traction on corners, instead of spinning one wheel.

My car was also the same as darrens, pulled in a straight line and was lovely to drive. The quaife diff really transformed it
__________________
Join me Rocking @ http://www.soundwavespahire.co.uk
Mark D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2010, 04:00 PM   #44
BBriBro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Independence, KY U.S.A.
Posts: 322
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Hondata
Default

what's the practical limit on caster? You can't run so much that it gets difficult to steer since you will actually be "lifting" the car as the wheels turn.
BBriBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2010, 04:12 PM   #45
evolotion
Senior Member
 
evolotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Glasgow. Posts:17,498
Posts: 6,114
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1400
Make: Rover
ECU: Megasquirt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Yikes!!!

Not good.
yip this is the main cause of torque steer, not diffs or shafts or even geometry. however optimising all of the above can help reduce it, running silly wheels on mini uprights will always cause torque steer.. shame, casue they look good
__________________
11.9@118 :)

Denis.
evolotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.