16v Mini Club Forums  

Go Back   16v Mini Club Forums > General Public Area > Honda Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-01-2018, 09:25 AM   #16
joltfreak
Senior Member
 
joltfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 250
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard-ish
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 250ptm View Post
Thatís messed up for the amount of money you paid minitec, I would expect them to provide a CEL.
You can always wire in a CEL yourself. Wire from pin A13 on the ECU to a light and from there to a 12 v ignition controlled source.

Did Minitec provide you with a proper wiring diagram for your harness so you can check the pin outs. It becomes very difficult to figure out if thereís a harness problem without one.

A couple of points I noted in your post. it may or may not be related to your problem of no spark, hard to say without a wiring diagram.

You should have power on # 3 for at least 2 seconds when first turning the ign ON. Again Iím presuming that Minitec put a relay in !
# 3 should be part of the PGM-FI relay and should be connected to your fuel pump. The relay operates the fuel pump for 2 seconds to prime the fuel rail when you switch the ignition on, then turns the pump OFF, it only runs the pump continuously when the engine is running. It shuts the pump off when you switch Ign off to stop the engine. This relay also send signals to the ECU and injectors and some grounding points.

Having your fuel pump wired independently is IMHO not a good idea at all.

Why did you put #9 to power side of relay, when it says ground ?
I have wired #3 to the fuel pump and PGM-FI is cycling the pump for a couple seconds when I hit the starter. Still no spark or power to pin B1
joltfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2018, 11:10 AM   #17
fynnbar
Senior Member
 
fynnbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dorset
Posts: 1,299
Subframe: SAE
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard obd1-P30
Default

Any power to A25 ?
fynnbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2018, 11:12 AM   #18
fynnbar
Senior Member
 
fynnbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dorset
Posts: 1,299
Subframe: SAE
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard obd1-P30
Default

I suspect a faulty PGM-FI main relay, or a break in the wire from Terminal 3 of the main relay
fynnbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2018, 11:16 PM   #19
250ptm
Senior Member
 
250ptm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 215
Subframe: Other
CC: 1600
Make: Honda
ECU: odb1
Default

Did you check the main relay as I suggested in POST # 13 ? It could eliminate one possible fault.
Also this is important:
Can you just clarify, when you “Hit the starter” are you cranking the engine, or just turning the Ignition switch to the “ON” position. Pump should only prime for 2 seconds with “IGN ON”.
If it only primes for 2 seconds and stops when cranking the engine then the wiring on your ignition switch is wrong.
You have the black/white and black/yellow in the wrong locations.
__________________
It only took me 3 years to reach 100 posts and become a senior member!
250ptm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2018, 12:11 AM   #20
joltfreak
Senior Member
 
joltfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 250
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard-ish
Default

I haven't pulled the relay out yet as I wanted to ensure te wiring is correct first.
When I turn on the ignition (no cranking), my pump turns on for a couple seconds then stops.

I would hope that the relay was good since this was a brand new harness.
joltfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2018, 12:19 AM   #21
250ptm
Senior Member
 
250ptm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 215
Subframe: Other
CC: 1600
Make: Honda
ECU: odb1
Default

Then at least that that part of the relay is working properly.

Just trying to eliminate some things,
__________________
It only took me 3 years to reach 100 posts and become a senior member!

Last edited by 250ptm; 22-01-2018 at 01:23 AM. Reason: mistake
250ptm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2018, 02:15 AM   #22
250ptm
Senior Member
 
250ptm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 215
Subframe: Other
CC: 1600
Make: Honda
ECU: odb1
Default

One thing to check is all the grounding points you have made on the Car for your “new harness”.
If they are not good it will not help. Also, I have seen a lot of problems caused by the main grounding point on the engine thermostat housing.
If it still doesn’t work try this:
With all the ECU plugs removed. Check the following with Ign ON.
ECU Plug B - Pin B1 and a ground
ECU Plug A - Pin A25 and a ground
ECU Plug A -A1, A2, A3, & A5 and a ground
All should read battery voltage approx. 12 v
__________________
It only took me 3 years to reach 100 posts and become a senior member!
250ptm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2018, 02:11 PM   #23
joltfreak
Senior Member
 
joltfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 250
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard-ish
Default

These are the pin designations for the OBD1 ECU as well as their wire color and voltage. I always have a hard time finding this information when I need it as I'm sure others do, so here it is

KEY:
(voltage values measured in DC Volts unless otherwise specified)
V = Volts
Wht = White
Blk = Black
Grn = Green
Yel = Yellow
Brn = Brown
Blu = Blue
Org = Orange

KOEO = Key On Engine Off
KOER = Key On Engine Running

A, B, D= Slot. Numbers are read up and down from left to right, not straight across (see diagram at end).

A1-INJ1 INJECTOR#1 Brown, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A2-INJ4 INJECTOR#4 Yellow, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A3-INJ2 INJECTOR#2 Red, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A4-VTS VTEC solenoid GRN/YEL, n/a
A5-INJ3 INJECTOR#3 Blue, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A6-PO2SHTC O2 sensor heating element Org/Wht, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A7-FLR1 fuel pump Grn/BLK, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A8-empty A7 and A8 have the same circurt, so they can be the same
A9-IACV IAC valve Blk/Blu, About 10v KOEO on Warm engine
A10-empty
A11-EGR Control Solenoid Valve (if the ECU has it) Red, n/a
A12-FANC engine coolant temp switch Blu/red, n/a
A13-MIL MIL (check engine light) Blu/wht, n/a
A14-empty
A15-ACC (a/c compressor clutch) Red/Blu, n/a
A16-ALT C alternator Wht/Grn, n/a
A17-IAB IAB Solenoid Pink, n/a
A18-Org/Red, Transmission Control Module (A/T), n/a
A19-White, Intake control solenoid, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A20-PCS EVAP purge control solenoid Red/Grn, n/a
A21-ICM Yel/Grn, Ignition Control Module output signal, About 10V KOEO
A22-Igniter, same as A21
A23-PG1 ground Black, Power ground, less than 1V
A24-PG2 ground same as A23
A25-IGP2 to main relay and to ground Yel/blk, Battery positive from Main relay, Battery Voltage with KOEO
A26-LG1 gound Blk/red, less than 1V

B1-IGP2 to pin A25 Yel/Blk, Battery positive from Main relay, Battery Voltage with KOEO
B2-LG2 ground to shields for CYP & TDC Brown/Blk, <1V
B3-Orange, upshift/downshift comparative input, n/a
B4-Pink, upshift/downshift comparative input, n/a
B5-ACS a/c switch Blu/Blk, a/c input, ~5V with KOEO & A/C off; <1V KOER with A/C & blower on
B6-empty
B7-Light green, Park/Neutral switch (A/T), <1V in Park or Neutral with KOEO; 5V in Park or neutral with KOER; Battery voltage in all other positions
B8-PSPSW PSP switch Red/Green, Power steering oil pressure switch, 0V KOEO; Battery Voltage KOER While slowly turning steering wheel
B9-STARTER SIGNAL starter signal Blue/red, Battery Voltage in the START position (clutch depressed on M/T models)
B10-VSS vehicle speed sensor Orange, Pulses 0-12V while turning the left front wheel
B11-CYP P CYP(#1 piston position) -P Orange, CYP sensor input, n/a
B12-CYP M CYP -M White, CYP sensor signal, n/a
B13-TDC P TDC(top dead ceter) -P Org/Blue, TDC sensor input, n/a
B14-TDC M TDC -M Wht/Blue, TDC sensor signal, n/a
B15-CKP P CKP(crank position) -P Blu/Green, CKP Sensor input, n/a
B16-CKP M CKP -M Blu/yel, CKP Sensor signal, n/a

D1-VBU Back Up Power Wht/Yel, Battery positive From battery through Fuse Box, Battery Voltage at ALL times
D2-BKSW brake switch Grn/wht, Battery voltage at all times
D3-KS Knock Sensor Red/Blue, n/a
D4-SCS service check connector Brown/Wht, ~5V (M/T); ~11V (A/T)
D5-empty
D6-VTM VTEC pressure switch Light Blue, n/a
D7-TXD/RXD (data link connector) Light Green/Red, n/a
D8-empty
D9-ALT F alternator Wht/Red, Alternator Charging Signal, ~4.5V KOEO; Decreases under Electrical load (Headlights & rear defogger on) At warm idle
D10-ELD electric load detector input Grn/Blk, n/a
D11-TPS (throttle position sensor) Signal Red/Blk, ~0.5V KOEO with throttle fully closed; ~4.5V KOEO with throttle fully open
D12-Wht/Blk, EGR Valve Lift sensor, ~1.2V KOEO
D13-ECT (engine coolant temp) sensor input Yel/Blu, ~5V KOEO (varies with temperature)
D14-PHO2S O2 sensor White, heated 02 sensor Signal, 0.4-0.5V when ignition is turned on; drops to less than 0.1V within 2 minutes
D15-IAT Intake Air Temperature sensor signal Red/Yel, .05-4.5V KOEO(Varies with temperature)
D16-VREF (no info)
D17-MAP Map Signal Wht/Blu, ~3V KOEO (Varies with Temperature)
D18-Light Green/Blk, Transmission Control Module (A/T Only), n/a
D19-Red/Wht, Reference Voltage, ~5V KOEO
D20-Yel/Wht, Reference Voltage, ~5V KOEO
D21-Blue/Wht, Sensor ground, <1V
D22-Green/Wht, Sensor ground, <1V
joltfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2018, 11:31 PM   #24
joltfreak
Senior Member
 
joltfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 250
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard-ish
Default

It's not a faulty PGM-FI main relay. I've tested and even bought another one. It's a got to wiring issue - either something wrong with the harness or i'm still missing something.
joltfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2018, 01:57 AM   #25
250ptm
Senior Member
 
250ptm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 215
Subframe: Other
CC: 1600
Make: Honda
ECU: odb1
Default

So the relay tests OK,at least thats something to eliminate.

What were the results for checking power to the the ECU pins (KO EO) (Ign ON Engine OFF) ?
And the condition of the grounds ?
Did you wire up an CEL to check for faults?

Im interested to get a resolution to this.
__________________
It only took me 3 years to reach 100 posts and become a senior member!
250ptm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2018, 02:34 AM   #26
joltfreak
Senior Member
 
joltfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 250
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard-ish
Default

It runs!!
It was a simple fix.
After I went through all the wires again I went through all the wire connectors. I unplugged them and checked for damage and reconnected them.
As I was reconnecting the plug for the ignitor, I noticed that the wire was moving out of the back of the plug. The pin inside the connector was sliding back preventing the connecting to the harness. Once I fixed the plug the motor started right up!
joltfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2018, 06:12 AM   #27
250ptm
Senior Member
 
250ptm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 215
Subframe: Other
CC: 1600
Make: Honda
ECU: odb1
Default

Congrats !
__________________
It only took me 3 years to reach 100 posts and become a senior member!
250ptm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2018, 10:15 PM   #28
joltfreak
Senior Member
 
joltfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 250
Subframe: MTB
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard-ish
Default

Thanks!
joltfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.