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Old 03-01-2015, 02:29 AM   #1
edk83
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Default Another fool with an Allegro and a silly idea...

Hi I'm Ed from near Derby.

My first car back in 2000 was a 998 mini city E, served me well for 3 years until I moved onto a mk1 escort 1300gt, sold that after a year for a tidy profit (wish I hadnt). I then had a metro turbo that was mint but the block melted after a few miles of crazy boost.

After that I had an xr2, xr2i, rover 620 turbo (hg failed). I then went all Jap and got all expensive for a few years, 400hp 300zx tt, mr2 turbo and an Na mk3 supra, did some drifting and had great fun. Sold that about 2 years ago due to marrage and child!

Until recently I had a bmw 328, electrics were getting dodgy so sold it and got a totally boring deawoo tacuma bus to park next to the wifes city rover! My how things have gone downhill!

Now its time to play again but with a much lower budget and no more turbos lol

I have a 79 Allegro, its running the E series 1.5, gasflowed and portedhead, aggressive cam and bike carbs, ford esc ignition with a trigger wheel - goes well but cold starts are hard work and its at the limit for power.

Its off the road at the moment, front mgf hydragas has gone flat, mot just run out and I found a small amount of rot when changing the steering rack.

Now I also have a freashly rebuilt 1750 bored to 1.8 with new pistons sat in the shed, but also now sitting on the drive is a rover 114 gsi!

On my many internet searches I have found only two threads with people thinking a K series in an Allegro would be a good idea, nethier of them made any attempt from what I can see. Now there must be a reason for this?

The Allegro has no front subframe so fitting a metro one will need some cutting amd welding, neither of which I'd want to do myself so I need to find someone good or crazy enough!

After doing some measuring though the track of the metro and allegro is almost the same, engine bay of the allegro isnt far off big enough either according to.the tape measure.

Plan A is to get an mgtf subframe and offer it up, if it looks like it can be welded in the turrets will also need chopping to take the coils of the tf frame. I have the complete metro 8v but 1.8vvc would be the real goal.

Plan B would be to get the little bit of rot welded and fit the 1.8 E series bottom end with the current head, maybe some larger bike carbs would be needed.

K series conversion seems possible though, on the hunt for a tf subframe and the 1.5 is coming out soon. I can do nuts and bolts, thats easy.

Last edited by edk83; 03-01-2015 at 02:36 AM. Reason: wasn't a long enough first post :p
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:23 AM   #2
InstantCustard
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Haven't not seen under the bonnet of an Allegro for at least 12 years, is there any reason why you couldn't just make engine mounts and mount it like it is in the Rovers without subframes?
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:16 AM   #3
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I had thought about that, but the beauty of the subframe is that everything else automatically then bolts straight in. Someone built a rover kv6 Allgero with custom engine mounts but they also fabricated towers for coilovers. Using a tf subframe all that would be there already, hubs, driveshafts would all bolt in including bigger breaks etc

The Allegro has discs and green stuff pads but they are still rather a stamp and pray affair!

Last edited by edk83; 03-01-2015 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:49 AM   #4
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A few pics
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20140922_200116.jpg (96.9 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20141013_181034.jpg (93.0 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20140705_151248.jpg (97.9 KB, 45 views)
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:00 AM   #5
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Allegro with attitude.
Subframe makes sense now, well if a KV6 will fit then I can't see any reason why a smaller, lighter K series won't work.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:32 AM   #6
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Engine bays awfully narrow, so unless your willing to teach yourself to weld its a no-go. The option of paying someone will only end in tears if you negotiate a "do it between other jobs" kind of deal as it simply wont get done, and once the engines in youll want to alter stuff again. And if you pay someone to do it promptly it wont be cheap.

Your options are to either do a college course on welding, or turbocharge the allegro lump and enjoy it for what it is
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:41 PM   #7
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It does sound great at the moment, the 1.8 might be the way to go. I reckon it'll put out 110hp ish but that would be the limit and turboing isn't the way I want to go.

The engine bay is actually not far off, I measured the metro subframe from the left side engine mount all the way down to the gear box and it should fit, the Allegro suspension is the only thing that's in the way, that would have to go anyway if I used a TF frame. It would take a fair bit of fabrication to get the subframe mounted to the body as well.

I do agree, it may never happen although I don't want this to be the third K series Allegro idea thread on the internet that never goes anywhere!

It would be good if I could weld, I have done some a few years ago. I made a half roll cage for the Supra but I'm not nearly skilled enough for this.

I was planning on paying for it to be done on a between jobs basis like you say, thinking maybe within a year time frame to start bolting in an engine. It just so happens the 114 has a years mot so we may as well use it until it's needed. I have a good idea of the amount of work that this would take and while it may end up as a pile of scrap I'm still thinking if the welding can be tackled it could work, I can do the electrics, brake, fuel lines etc.

I'll drop the 1.5 out in the next few weeks, I need to get some welding done anyway and I want to tidy up the engine bay in places too.

Maybe get hold of a mgtf subframe at the same time and have a look? Nothing to loose right until any cutting starts!
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:54 PM   #8
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This is the Allegro v6 project

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=17184

I have also borrowed a few pics from it to show the Allegro engine bay better.





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Old 05-01-2015, 08:30 AM   #9
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This looks an interesting idea. There is more room in there than in a Mini so why not.

Cut away all the inner wings and suspension turrets and fabricate mounts for a MG F frame. As you have more room than a Mini, you might be able to make the frame mount in the same way as in the MG F.

I would get some dimensions from the MG F and go from there.

Don't waste your time fitting anything other than the VVC engine. The cost isn't going to be much more for the 30+ extra horsepower. You'll only end up swapping to it later if you do, meaning more time and money wasted.

Like in a Mini if you're doing this you need a MG F rear frame with engine, gearbox, driveshafts, both subframe arms, mounts and steady bar. Then all the suspension, hubs and brakes off the front frame. The inlet side can remain standard and the exhaust you can use from a Rover 200 (1800). Gear linkage can be Rover 200 (1800) too.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:33 PM   #10
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I have driven the 114 gsi to work today, quite surprised at the low down torque, it would be pretty mental with double the power!

I'm hoping the 114 will supply a lot of the parts other than the vvc engine + ecu of course

Saying that though I think I need to get a complete subframe with hubs beforehand to see if it actually fits!

I'm going to go with a mgtf frame I think, as they are newer they should be less rotten and it would be good to get rid of the Allegro hydragas up front.

There is a tf being broken round the corner at the moment, still waiting for him to sell the 135 engine before I can have the subframe though, not sure if it would be best to get the front one + engine mounts or rear + front arms and hubs, I guess either would need to be modded with a grinder?

Also found someone selling a tf rear frame that's been in a metro already, mods done, just needs coilovers - might be better idea, fair drive to collect it though.

Last edited by edk83; 05-01-2015 at 02:37 PM. Reason: I cant type
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Old 29-01-2015, 10:27 AM   #11
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Well I have got myself a TF frame

The Allegro engine should be out this weekend, just the block left in now.

I measured the distance between the centre of the shock towers on the TF frame, vs the centre of the hydragas units on the Allegro - there is so little in it, about 5mm difference if that!

I think there may be more cutting needed than I thought though, the Allegro has quite beefy front rails that the engine mounts to, these may need a fair bit of modding.

I will post up some pics once the engine bay is clear.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:29 AM   #12
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Well the engine is out

I have started cleaning the engine bay, also removed leaky mgf hydragas can.

How do you separate the knuckle shaft from the bottom of the can?
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:37 AM   #13
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I've only done them on a Metro but think they are the same. It's a push fit. They can corrode in place though.
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Old 09-02-2015, 12:34 PM   #14
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Cheers, Yeah looks like they are a push fit, will probably just want some gentle persuasion.

They have only been on the car about a year so hopefully wont be too bad.

Didn't have much time to play this weekend, will get some pics of subframe vs Allegro next weekend. I was using a bit of petrol and rag to clean the engine bay, I was well high after 2 hours of scrubbing! - Lots more to so as well!
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Old 09-02-2015, 01:24 PM   #15
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Start a build thread in the Non-Mini section
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New subframe fitting has begun - slowly

Build Thread - Standard Round Nose with K series subframe build begun
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