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Old 24-01-2018, 06:22 PM   #1
adscooper93
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Default A few questions and a hello

Hi

New here. I have a 93' Cooper SPI shell half stripped ready for decisions on paint and engine. I was looking at going the Yamaha R1 route which would be fun but I like to take my mini's on trips away which might involve motorway stints especially the euro trips. So the R1 engine with its chain set up would take a beating.

Then I looked into the Honds B16 and B18 conversions with the allseed subframe, shafts etc. Modern engine and gearbox with a good lump of poke for a tin can. I am aiming at squeezing it into a standard round nose, really want to avoid doing a long front or clubman conversion.

My questions are for the boys/girls that have already completed the conversion. I have been through a few build threads, more recently BlueMini17's build thread.

So here goes.

1, A few of the builds people have done have the extended front I know this gives you more clearance for exhaust set up. But why opt for all this body adjustment when you could have a nice custom manifold made up for fraction of the work?

2, I am under the understanding that ITB'S will fit without bulkhead modification. So why do most conversions include the chopping of bulkhead to retain the standard plenum. Imagine the amazing noise from the ITB'S

3, What are the favoured gearboxes? Am I correct in saying that some house an LSD?

4, What should I set aside for a budget?

5, Looking at having a flip or removable front. Mainly for maintenance. Whats involved in achieving this?

6, What sort of performance can you achieve from the B16 and B18's?

7, Finally what are the main differences in the 2 engines?

8, What are they like to live with

Ive had minis for years and know my way around them but an engine and subframe conversion is totally new to me so sorry for the questions.

Thanks

Adam
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Old 25-01-2018, 08:31 AM   #2
Haz
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1) it also gives more clearance for radiator and brake servo if you choose to run one.

2) they can be costly to buy off the shelf kits, or require lots of tinkering to make bike ones fit and work, they also require a mappable ECU.

3) check Honda forums for gearboxes, I run an s9b which still requires a change of final drive to get the desired gearing. It has an lsd but not all s9b boxes do. It has more favourable gearing than other boxes in my opinion.

4) that totally depends on how much work you do yourself and what standard you want to build to. You could probably spend 10k at KAD.

5) fettling, bloody knuckles, beer.

6) they range from 160-190 bhp in standard form, with a small amount tinkering can easily achieve a reliable 200 naturally aspirated.

7) b18 is slightly taller, heads are different. B18 produces more torque low down, b16 is more peaky or revvy. It’s not as simple as what’s the difference between the two, because there’s not two. There’s b16a b16a1 b16a2 b18c4 b18c6 etc etc etc... just wiki the Honda b series and read up. Check out some Honda forums if you can sift through all the BS.

scary
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Old 25-01-2018, 08:59 AM   #3
jsouroufis
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Hi there!

Quote:
1, A few of the builds people have done have the extended front I know this gives you more clearance for exhaust set up. But why opt for all this body adjustment when you could have a nice custom manifold made up for fraction of the work?
It's not only the exhaust, it's also the radiator among others which can be a pain to fit and also that works in your climate. On a roundnose most of the rad is hidden behind the headlight with little airflow where on a a clubman it can be made to fit flat on the front. And then you have the alternator. It can also fit behind the top of the engine but on a clubman you can have the stock alternator on the front easier. I have a stock alternator on the front in my roundnose but it required a custom bracket and trimming the grille.

Quote:
2, I am under the understanding that ITB'S will fit without bulkhead modification. So why do most conversions include the chopping of bulkhead to retain the standard plenum. Imagine the amazing noise from the ITB'S
True, ITB's can be fit without mods to the bulkhead but they can get quite expensive as well, plus they can get weird to tune. A manifold can be modified for cheap.

Quote:
3, What are the favoured gearboxes? Am I correct in saying that some house an LSD?
In my opinion any gearbox will need a 4.0 FD or less. LSD is up to you. Personally I started with a Y21, ITR LSD and an 4.0 FD.
Later on I changed 3rd-4th gears from the S80 and LS 5th. It suits my needs much better, LS 5th is perfect for highway.

Quote:
4, What should I set aside for a budget?
This one varies a lot! At a minimum you can already do your research for the Allspeed parts plus a donor car. Then depends if you can do the wiring, welding, custom parts, tuning, performance parts etc. I can tell you that my budget ended up triple as I originally thought.

Quote:
5, Looking at having a flip or removable front. Mainly for maintenance. Whats involved in achieving this?
Hinges, brackets and release pins..you can get creative on this. Many use Audi or BMW boot hinges plus a way to secure the front in place.

Quote:
6, What sort of performance can you achieve from the B16 and B18's?
Horsepower wise, rough figures are: B16 160 stock to about 210 with parts and tune. B18 up to 240.
On the road these things are quick. Mine is a B16 with quite a few parts and I've easily beat from a 2nd gear roll a stock Evo IX, stock Leon Cupra, Audi S3, EP3 type r 250 hp among others and I've kept up with an STI which the owner said it was 380hp. You get the point.

Quote:
7, Finally what are the main differences in the 2 engines?
Apart from the obvious displacement, I believe B18 is also a little taller as an engine. B18 also came in various trims from non vtec 140hp up to vtec 200hp. B16A from 150 up to the B16B 187hp.

Parts are mostly interchangeable.

Quote:
8, What are they like to live with
Chances are that there will always be something to fix, make it better, change etc every now and then..Do it right and you can get away with mostly basic maintenance. Definitely FUN though!
Things to research before you start:
-Gearing. This alone can ruin your built and then make you drop the engine to fit a FD. Do it from the beginning.
-Wheels and tire combo. This can ruin your driving experience. Don't go wide.
-Set your mind on a roundnose or a clubman. The later makes it easier to build.

I'm sure I've forgot some major details but others will contribute as well!
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Old 25-01-2018, 10:46 AM   #4
adscooper93
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Thanks for the replies, great help.

I come from being an ex Caterham owner so tinkering every other weekend is normal. I had built that engine Rover K series with ITBís from jenvey which were quite maintenance free. Maybe a re adjustment every 2 years. Iíd be looking at a standalone ECU from emerald which I also used on my Caterham.

I am planning on doing the whole job on my own hence looking at a bolt in subframe from allspeed. Fabrication isnít too much of a problem as I have an uncle that builds miniature steam engines so heís pretty mustard at fabrication.
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Old 29-01-2018, 10:13 AM   #5
AGoaty
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Is there a reason you have chosen the Honda route? The Rover K series is a very tried and tested one in a Mini.

Gearing can be a nightmare with the Honda's as they like to rev but would have far bigger wheels on the donor vehicle. The Rover has a selection of stock boxes which work fine.

All of the Honda parts are more expensive. The conversion is more complicated. The finished car would have similar power output. The Rover is a much lighter setup which is good for a Mini.

Sorry if this is a thread hijack but just saying there are other options and as you know the Rover engine already, maybe is the way to go.
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Old 30-01-2018, 08:14 AM   #6
InstantCustard
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About the use of ITBís, you said you do a few motorway miles, Iíve fitted Jenveys to my K series and motorways are LOUD!
I donít have the room to fit a plenum and Iím currently upgrading my sound deadening before I read-fit my engine.
If itís a route you plan to go down then seriously consider sound deadening(not dampening like Dynamat).


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Old 02-02-2018, 04:59 PM   #7
lsdweb
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Iíd be looking at a standalone ECU from emerald
I'm going the Emerald route - Karl has already sent me base maps and config files (I'm using the standard distributor for the cam/crank sensors but not for distributing)

Wyn
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:21 PM   #8
adscooper93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoaty View Post
Is there a reason you have chosen the Honda route? The Rover K series is a very tried and tested one in a Mini.

Gearing can be a nightmare with the Honda's as they like to rev but would have far bigger wheels on the donor vehicle. The Rover has a selection of stock boxes which work fine.

All of the Honda parts are more expensive. The conversion is more complicated. The finished car would have similar power output. The Rover is a much lighter setup which is good for a Mini.

Sorry if this is a thread hijack but just saying there are other options and as you know the Rover engine already, maybe is the way to go.
Iíve had a k series Caterham which I loved. I also like the Honda engine and thatís the only reason really.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:23 PM   #9
adscooper93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InstantCustard View Post
About the use of ITBís, you said you do a few motorway miles, Iíve fitted Jenveys to my K series and motorways are LOUD!
I donít have the room to fit a plenum and Iím currently upgrading my sound deadening before I read-fit my engine.
If itís a route you plan to go down then seriously consider sound deadening(not dampening like Dynamat).


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The noise is what Iím after 😂. I had ITB with no filter on my Caterham. With the exhaust down the side and no windscreen it made it a very loud affair.
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