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Old 22-09-2017, 11:51 AM   #1
jsouroufis
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Default Offset, KPI/KPO and handling

Hey everyone.

Background story:
About a year ago I had a small accident when I hit a sidewalk, broke a rim and bend the footwell which resulted in unlevel rack among others. At that time I already had new rims waiting to be fitted so put the new wheels, got a restoration workshop fix the footwell etc.

The car though never pulled the same. Messed a lot with the tracking through these months and although in a good pavement it goes very well, on any other typical road it can be a nightmare. Pulls left and right depending traction, surface etc.

I've been reading a lot more than the usual regarding suspension settings, tracking etc and after a various settings the car is now "predictable", which means that it will still try to kill you but now you know when.

Lately, I got to know more about KPO which for some reason I always avoided to understand. Most of us are aware or hear about the design flow of the Mini suspension but honestly very few information is available for the precious details.

To cut long story short, My first wheels were 13x6 ET +35. With these wheels the car pulled straight and was very manageable from the steering. Changed to 13x6 ET +10 and ruined everything.

After all the reading, tech articles, internet search, conversation with a couple race drivers, I concluded that any change to the KPO more than 5mm is quite noticeable.

The problem is not the rim offset by itself, but the manufacturers that in order to achieve a wider look to the wheels, protrude the extra width only to the outside for clearance issues.

Tomorrow I'll send my previous/broken rims to be repaired. I strongly believe that once fitted, the car will handle a lot better.

Any thoughts, arguments, experiences are highly appreciated.
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:06 PM   #2
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Intresting thing I am always confused by + offsets ect and e.t but simply know that mini wheel should be in as close to body as it can be with a nice bit of rubber contact on road, when the rubber starts to go outside that the problems start, conflict occurres . There are times when wide foot works but on drag but not to manover well,
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:30 PM   #3
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[QUOTE=ardonfast;373967...but simply know that mini wheel should be in as close to body as it can be....[/QUOTE]

Pretty much yea..In my case going from +35 to +10, pushed the wheel 25mm further to the outside and thus altered the king pin offset by that much, which is a lot apparently.
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Old 23-09-2017, 01:21 PM   #4
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That is it ! Not only in our heads but phisicly proven, the mini size and nearly perfect balance is better than anything!! Then we come along and change it's footprint, we meen well but all we do is pinpoint all the phisicly problems and it all becomes amplified to the final place( steering wheel now just don't work verry well,
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Old 25-09-2017, 11:06 PM   #5
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Im curious, where did you find the 13 x 6 with a 35 offset? Are they still available from a vendor?
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Old 26-09-2017, 07:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 250ptm View Post
Im curious, where did you find the 13 x 6 with a 35 offset? Are they still available from a vendor?
They came with the car when I bought it second hand.
I am also curious that I've never came across them and can't find the manufacturer as they have nothing on them other that the 13x6 et35 on the back.

Even tried reverse google search but nothing similar..

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Old 27-09-2017, 12:43 AM   #7
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look like metro gta
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Old 27-09-2017, 08:30 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ardonfast View Post
look like metro gta
Similar but not quite, The GTa wheel had a flat face, these are more convex.

I looked on here

http://www.wheeldictionary.net/13a.html

But nothing matches exactly
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Old 27-09-2017, 09:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
Similar but not quite, The GTa wheel had a flat face, these are more convex.

I looked on here

http://www.wheeldictionary.net/13a.html

But nothing matches exactly
Exactly, mine look a lot like various others but none is the same.
I've also came across this site before but as you said, no exact match.

Anyway, I took them back from the repairer this morning, so by tomorrow night I should have them on the Mini and test them without any further changes to the suspension setup to get a feeling and confirm the above. Fingers crossed the car will be much more manageable!!
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Old 27-09-2017, 10:10 AM   #10
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I wonder if they are 4 x 100 pcd which is can be forced to appear to fit the mini 101.6mm pcd flange, looking at the offset they seem to match early nova corsa style wheels

Just a thought

David
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Old 27-09-2017, 10:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsouroufis View Post
Exactly, mine look a lot like various others but none is the same.
I've also came across this site before but as you said, no exact match.

Anyway, I took them back from the repairer this morning, so by tomorrow night I should have them on the Mini and test them without any further changes to the suspension setup to get a feeling and confirm the above. Fingers crossed the car will be much more manageable!!
If you have 2 undamaged ones could you just put 2 on the front and try it out ? Yeah, it will look a bit weird but it may confirm or disprove your theory
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Old 28-09-2017, 07:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
If you have 2 undamaged ones could you just put 2 on the front and try it out ? Yeah, it will look a bit weird but it may confirm or disprove your theory
i didnt think this was still a theory, silly offset=silly handling.
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Old 29-09-2017, 11:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minicooper View Post
I wonder if they are 4 x 100 pcd which is can be forced to appear to fit the mini 101.6mm pcd flange, looking at the offset they seem to match early nova corsa style wheels

Just a thought

David
Closest I could find were these but they are branded Rial in the centre.



on this website

https://wheel-temple.com/tag/6x13/

but they are ET33 and 4x100 - maybe they were available in ET35 with a 4x4" PCD ?
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:21 PM   #14
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Apologies for the late reply, caught up with the work..

So, the wheels are ET33, they were almost a year in the storage room and didn't remember exactly.

Anyway, had them repaired, fit them a few houres ago and just got back from a quick test drive.

It's true, they handle so much better! I even went WOT in a road I knew the Mini will bounce between two lanes a couple of times and I could keep it straight with one hand! Completely different handling!

Also, the steering seems easier to turn at a stop.

How can I say this, it just doesn't transfer any force to the wheel and rip it out of your hands!
I'll try to record a video and make a comparison in the same roads with some of the videos I already have that you can actually see the effort needed to keep it straight and how easy it is now!

I'm gonna need new arches as well as it look silly now..
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:30 PM   #15
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or longer suspension members, i've played with that idea for a while.
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