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Old 05-02-2017, 02:56 PM   #1
edk83
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Default Evans waterless coolant

Is anyone running this stuff in thier K series? I've seen it recommended on Jay Leno etc and a friend who used to work at BL / Rover uses it in his TF and says its well worth it.

Had a quick search on here and only found one old thread saying some other brand of waterless leaked on a very old engine, Evans is the only waterless I'm aware of though.

I'm very tempted to try it as exhaust manifold will be close to the rad, found a supplier of the red stuff thats meant for ally engines in Peterbrough, 38 for 5 litres which is 20 less than ebay. I wouldnt need to flush as its not built yet, would need 7 liters I think as holds just over 5 - might be expensive if it leaked though!

I'm heading the Peterbrough next week on a job so might pick some up.
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:20 PM   #2
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I've got some, never used it yet though, will be using it on this new lump.
I've heard nothing but good stuff about it.


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Old 06-02-2017, 09:03 AM   #3
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I seem to remember a debate on an FB forum over this, a guy swore by the stuff and a few mechanics were trying to warn him off but he wasn't having any of it. I remember the argument about it being flammable. A quick search brought this up. Some interesting points about it's greater viscosity affecting the water pump efficiency and higher temps at the head recorded. Admittedly it seems to have been a test undertaken by a company that makes cooling additives so there is possibly some over emphasising of bad points.

http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm

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SUMMARY OF FINDINGS

Conversion costs of $259 if you do it yourself, or over $400 if you pay a shop to do it.

97%+ removal of all previous coolant is mandatory in order to prevent corrosion.

Inhibitor deposition occurs on aluminum surfaces, which could cause issues in some radiators.

Engines run 115-140oF hotter (at the cylinder heads) with Evans products.

Stabilized coolant temps are increased by 31-48oF, versus straight water with No-Rosion.

Reprogramming ECU fan temp settings is mandatory to prevent the fan from running continuously.

Specific heat capacity of Evans waterless products ranges from 0.64 to 0.68, or about half that of water.

Engine octane requirement is increased by 5-7 numbers.

Computerized ignition must retard engine timing by 8-10o to prevent trace knock.

Engine horsepower is reduced by 4-5%.

Accelerated recession of non-hardened valve seats in older engines is possible, due to brinelling.

Viscosity is 3-4 times higher than what OEM water pumps are rated to accommodate.

Coolant flow rate through radiator tubes is reduced by 20-25% due to the higher viscosity.

Race tracks prohibit Evans products because they are flammable and slippery when spilled.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:04 AM   #4
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Only the cost puts me off. I've also heard good reports for the use of it.

My issue is I seem to keep changing things in the engine bay and need to drain it. Those stupid O ring on the thermostat housing are a common leaking area too. Each time it would mean another 30+ of new coolant.

The other issue is you need to get all of the water out of the system. This includes draining the block. How are you meant to do that?
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:42 AM   #5
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They have a prep fluid that you run through the engine first and that absorbs water, they recommend you blow air through the system to blow the worst of it through first.


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Old 06-02-2017, 07:33 PM   #6
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Well now would be the time then seeing as everything is dry, I'm using an mgf rad up front and the manifold is quite close at one point. I've wrapped the exhaust and will make a heatshield maybe as well. It's close on the hot side and clear on the cold side where the fan is. Just the pipe on the manifold that sticks out furthest is about 10mm away, I've reshaped the front panel as it was even closer!

Thinking every little helps
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:15 PM   #7
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I really wouldnt .. distilled water and OAT antifrese (pinky red halfords pro etc) should be all you need. as we have aluminium blocks OAT antifreese and corrotion is not an issue, arguably its simply not present. your radiator should be big enough to keep the system cool under load, and no magic coolant will make your radiator more efficient.

next is the issue of disposing of non water coolants, and what if you get a leak while out and about, water is available everywhere, antifreese is in most petrol stations if you must. just seems like a whole lotta faffing about when a cooling system in good order is perfectly fine with water and antifreese. imho as always.
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Old 07-02-2017, 07:16 PM   #8
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Well I went there today anyway and they relieved me of 56 for 7 liters of powercool 180. I would have liked to not have to pay vat but they weren't having it.

I understand that no magic will cool better than water and corrosion isn't really a big deal for us but what about the idea of almost no pressure?

7 liters should allow me to carry a liter spare too. You can add water but only up to 5% or it looses the 180 degree boiling point.

Even a cooling system running at 85c at the head output can have some boiling going on near the cylinders, this should limit that and with much less pressure be a good thing for the K series.

As for disposal, it'll either stay in the engine or end up on the road!
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:36 AM   #9
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If the conclusions of the link I posted are right then it'll be interesting to see how the K series copes with higher temps at the head and a less efficient water pump. On the face of it it sounds like a recipe for cooking another head
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:08 AM   #10
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I'm not saying I believe all these products, but you could have tried a bottle of Water Wetter at 15 ish. Supposed to drop engine temp by 18 degrees and do all the other. Then if you loose coolant, you can just add water. Never tried it. It's like all these things, it's suck it and see and often these companies create an issue and then provide a solution with their product. Cher Ching
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:07 AM   #11
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Gents,
I've worked in cooling system design for Ford for a long time. We've looked at alternative cooling fluids for all sorts of products from high performance to trucks to budget cars and our conclusion has always been that the best fluid is 40% OAT coolant and 60% water which is what pretty much every OEM uses.
Car cooling systems are usually (but not always) limited by the ability to get the heat from the radiator material into the airstream and not by getting the heat transfer ability of the coolant. 40/60 coolant has a specific heat capacity of 3.6kJ/kg/degC which is actually worse than plain water at around 4.2 but better than a light oil like ATF at about 2.8.
It'll be interesting to see how you get on but I suspect all that will happen is you will end up being able to run hotter.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:29 AM   #12
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From what I have read the overall coolant temp will be slightly higher due to the lower cooling ability of the fluid. The main advantage though is the much higher boiling point of 180c. With this comes much less pressure so it's much easier on the engine. Reading a blog from someone with a k series powered lotus the running temp increased by 3-4c

They state that with normal water based coolant the rad will be slightly cooler but you get steam / boiling occurring inside the head at certain hot points which this fluid eliminates - less chance of head damage.

What are your thoughts on that claim Cliff?
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:09 PM   #13
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If for the same flow rates a decrease in specific heat capacity of about 5% would give a 4degC rise assuming you had been running at about 100degC to being with on a 20degC day. That sounds reasonable.
The small areas of localized boiling, much smaller than pin heads (nucleate boiling) should not damage the head as the manufacturer should have proved that out during their engine durability testing (mind you we are talking about Rover....). What you need to avoid is large scale boiling as this can lead to big temperature differences across components. When the vapour bubbles get around to the pump it can stop circulating coolant.
I'm not sure what temperature Rover designed the cylinder head to. I would guess a maximum of 110degC water out. What cylinder head out temperatures are you seeing?
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:30 PM   #14
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large scale boiling is avoided with the removal of the "jiggle valve" in the inlet, aloowing a constant coolant flow, go a stage further as I did and add vent pipes to all bleed points jointing at the top of the header tank, result is even if local boiling occurs (or a mild head gasket breach as I would experience fairly often when testing and tuning) the cooling system remains all liquid in the head and radiator. This modification allowed the car to be driven with head gasket failure and no overheating, just topping up the coolant regularly.

50% OAT is good for 130 degrees C boiling point As I recall,
Water under 14psi has a boiling point of 120 degrees C

I would asume water and OAT under pressure to be above 130degC
If you run your cooling system at 95 ish degrees, thats a fair bit of headroom.

However, REALLY really keen to hear your results as I have personally never tried waterless coolant.
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:55 PM   #15
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The localised boiling is also reduced by the small extra holes we have been suggesting in the thermostat. To give a quicker warm up, Rover didn't have any holes in it. So when it opened as the car warmed up, a large quantity of cold water would rush into the block from the radiator. This isn't good as creates hot and cold spots. It takes about 1-2 minutes longer with holes added to reach normal temp, but has to be better overall.

These small holes just allow a small amount of water to constantly flow around the engine and help keep it cool. I can honestly say that I think the waterless coolant is not needed, but I am interested in the result though...
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