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Old 25-01-2018, 12:43 AM   #106
ardonfast
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I expect I'm a right pain in your buTT but please show how this mini holds to the road??
It matters!! I fully respect that you sell this kit but you need to show the full advantage,
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Old 25-01-2018, 07:37 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardonfast View Post
I expect I'm a right pain in your buTT but please show how this mini holds to the road??
It matters!! I fully respect that you sell this kit but you need to show the full advantage,
Not realy !! working on it, everything takes time buddy.. Right now i am focust on getting this road legal in Holland. Thats a job by itself already.. lots of paperwork
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Old 25-01-2018, 12:33 PM   #108
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Yes cool, there not many like this ,
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Old 25-01-2018, 04:54 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardonfast View Post
I expect I'm a right pain in your buTT but please show how this mini holds to the road??
It matters!! I fully respect that you sell this kit but you need to show the full advantage,
Shaun, I don't want to fill AWDs build diary with irrelevant info to his build but I recently read a tech article on why 4WD F1 cars (1960s and 70s) didn't work and why the RWD was better. It got me thinking as to how the reasoning would apply to 4WD when applied to a FWD.

To try and bare it to the bone it basically said that when you start to corner a RWD car uses 100% of its power to power the car whereas a 4WD loses power through the front wheels when turned as they are being used for power and for steering. The reality was that the 4WD F1 car understeered more and exited the corners slower than the RWD car hence they were slower over a lap. There's a whole lot more info about tyre tech and the weight disadvantages of the extra 4WD stuff as well as how this may not be the same if they did 4wd in F1 now by using variable torque split diffs et but that's not relevant for this bit.

Where I say lose it in the turn the easiest way to explain is that the more you turn the wheel the less power you can apply at the throttle before it starts understeering and then you are leaching energy (speed) compared to the power you are putting in to heat and noise.

If you consider the above in relation to 4WD compared to FWD then a FWD car puts 100% power to the driving and steering wheels.

If we imagine an agricultural 50/50 torque split 4WD system then 50% goes to front and 50% goes to back. If say you lose 20% of available power at the front wheels to turning then the FWD car will lose that 20% where as the 4WD car will lose only 10% (being 20% of the 50% going to the front and the full 50% still going to the rear). In BHP terms lets say the car has 100bhp, in FWD configuration it loses 20bhp to the turn and in 4WD configuration it will only lose 10bhp to the turn.

In effect then any power you can divert away from the front wheels to the rear means that you are losing less power in a turn and using it to power the car.

In AWD's case lets call his B18 engine a round 200bhp and the CRV tranny gives about 15% power to the rear IIRC (I could be wrong but hey lets go with it). If we consider losing 20% through a turn then a 200bhp FWD which would lose 40bhp (20% of 200bhp), but the 4WD with 30bhp going to the rear wheels (15% of 200bhp) then 20% of the remaining 170bhp that is still going through the front would result in a loss of only 34bhp in the turn therefore the net result is an extra 6bhp being used to power the car forward gross but in real terms you are getting 30bhp of undiluted power driving the rear wheels whilst you can only put 136bhp through the front wheels before causing understeer. The FWD car having 160bhp to drive it forward with no rearward assistance before it starts unbdersteering.

The more you can increase the torque split away from the front to the rear the better drive you will have (up to a point) out of a corner which is how I understand the Skyline, GTR etc works by being RWD and only adding power to the front when actually required.

I hope that all makes sense - I'm not teacher so explaining stuff is not my forte.

Also AWD is using a double wishbone set up rear suspension which is superior over the Minis trailing arm set up so all in all (weight penalty aside) I can't see how a 4WD car can be any worse than an equivalent FWD and everything seems to point towards it being a lot better.

Just to bookend this I read recently that F1 is considering 4WD again as an option but by using an electric motor to drive the front wheels instead of a propshaft from the ICE
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Old 26-01-2018, 07:19 AM   #110
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Oz, thats a lot of words ! i only want to say this: I have tested my mini now in 2 different ways. 1st with the prop in place.. being AWD then the 2nd test was without the prop being FWD. i difference i so big with pulling awaing.. its eigther spinning like crazy(FWD) or being catapulted away (AWD)! Sure, there is more to it and some you described already above but AWD at a stoplight.., you really cant beat that! On the end, a mini will never be a F1 car.. you build a AWD mini because you like to build it and then drive it on a Sunny day and go all out at the stoplight . and maybe because you will end up with something not everybody has / can build! Short, i like it that much that my next build will be again AWD 4 sure.. despite the additional costs and time.. its worth it 100%.

Cheers
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Old 26-01-2018, 11:42 AM   #111
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Yes Oz, I have plenty of confidence that a front w/d mini can hold its own and is the best all-rounder!
It's been interesting to follow AWD build and stuff,
It's a advert for his frames running along side the build,
So that's cool, having said that I've had some good looking chick's that won't eat sausage!! Lol

So until I can see this mini driven hard (which is why you would build a 4x4) I assume?
This could be of future interest to many
And I hope AWD achieve s that,
I'm pushing for the ticket to ride the train,
So will wait with interest for AWD to do the things he said about, Cheers!
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Old 26-01-2018, 12:42 PM   #112
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Hi,

What everyone said is correct but you have to remember, technology is improving every day!
AWD have push and pull effect on a car. FWD will be pull only. RWD will be pushing.
If you have soft rear springs, all of the weight transfer will make your front tyres smoke like there is no tomorrow. AWD will be great in stand still start compares to FWD but AWD will lose out on top speed.
In loose surface, like rally.... AWD is much faster and you can all wheel drift by just angle your car in entry then put foot down.
Allan said to me that he has to learn to drive again after changing to his EvoMini race car.
His FWD sprint car was quick but his Z-car RWD was quicker. I think EvoMini is fastest ever.

All you need is balls of steel and any Mini will be quick!
Jerry's "pig in lipstick" or "Pen***" Minivan was quick in SantaPod. He had AWD with welded VC so 50/50 and LSDs front and back. If you see his video, his car shot off like scolded cat.

AWD, I think your car will be same but in NA with V-Tec kicking in will be fun!

Cheers
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:04 AM   #113
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Swapping gears into an AWD gearbox. using the N2E5 gears with the 4.0 FD.

Using this specific gearbox number you need to do the following:
- make a spacer between de 2 diff gears, 6mm
- turn down the bottom end of the main (19mm to 15mm) and counter shaft (38mm to 36mm)
- adjust selector forks
- counter sink (180 degree) the diff bolts 4mm, use longer bolts
Compared to the gearbox internals that some others are using with this there is no need to make a bush or grind down the lower countershaft bearing..

This weekend i will start on the above..












Last edited by AWD; 08-03-2018 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:11 AM   #114
GEORDIE SP1
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Good work Mark, good option, harder to find around here, 4.0 final drive should work well. Watching with interest.


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Old 08-03-2018, 10:16 AM   #115
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[QUOTE=GEORDIE SP1;377605]Good work Mark, good option, harder to find around here, 4.0 final drive should work well. Watching with interest.


following in your foodsteps buddy !! most of it is the same. The F18 gearbox was not hard to find here in Holland. Still running the stock gears in the awd mini.. will finish this on the bench and then make the swap. How far are you by now
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:35 PM   #116
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lots of other work getting in the way, will get steering rack panel welded in at weekend and get engine and frame back in. As i say if i was doing it from scratch would have built a front frame also,
the only N2E on ebay uk at moment is in Germany. but now we know what to source.
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Old 19-03-2018, 12:35 PM   #117
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Started making the spacer..





and surfaced the diff to sweet fit the spacer onto the diff housing

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Old 26-03-2018, 02:33 AM   #118
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Your a clever man!!! I look forward to the day it's mobile ,
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Old 26-03-2018, 07:37 AM   #119
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Did some more work:
- Made room for the bigger shaft bearing
- Finished the diff spacer
- Finished machining the diff











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Old 26-03-2018, 07:51 AM   #120
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Wating for the gearbox swap. making the gearbox work in the bench and then take the front of the awd mini apart to do the gearbox swap . the weather is already better in holland so in the meanwhile i still can drive this monster
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