16v Mini Club Forums  

Go Back   16v Mini Club Forums > General Public Area > Honda Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-12-2014, 04:36 AM   #1
B20C5
Member
 
B20C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 93
Subframe: MTB
CC: 2020
Make: Honda
ECU: AEM
Default Coil-on-plug for B-Series VTEC engines...

Hello gents! I just wanted to share this bit of information for those of you who are running Honda B-series VTEC engines...

If you have ever thought about converting to a COP system, or have already converted and are not happy with the fitment of the coils you have selected, this might be of interest to you.

I have recently discovered that it is possible to modify an Audi/VW coil to fit perfectly on a Honda B-Series VTEC head. Once the modification has been performed, the coils fit correctly on the plugs and seal completely in the valve cover. They are designed to hold onto the spark plug heads, so it is not necessary to bolt them down or use a cap to hold them in place, which is very convenient.

The coils I used were pulled from a 2002 Audi 3.0l V6.

1.) Using a razor blade, or similar cutting device, remove the lower seal from the coil assembly.

2.) Push the coil assembly onto spark plug.

3.) Wire the coil(s) to your engine management system accordingly.









B20C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 07:50 AM   #2
fynnbar
Senior Member
 
fynnbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dorset
Posts: 1,283
Subframe: SAE
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard obd1-P30
Default

Oh that's rather cool.
Have you wired them up yet, and run it ?
Did you cut the wiring plugs required from the Audi loom ?
fynnbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 10:47 AM   #3
MiniMadGreg.
Senior Member
 
MiniMadGreg.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tonbridge, Kent.
Posts: 533
Subframe: Other
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: P28 Neptune rtp
Send a message via MSN to MiniMadGreg. Send a message via Yahoo to MiniMadGreg.
Default

I like that! Been wanting to change for ages! Anyone know if neptune rtp can have COP?
__________________
.... You was only suppose to blow the bloody doors off ! ....
MiniMadGreg. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 10:54 AM   #4
fynnbar
Senior Member
 
fynnbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dorset
Posts: 1,283
Subframe: SAE
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: Standard obd1-P30
Default

If you could give us a start-to-finish account of this, it'd make a great sticky.
Stuff we need to know including what alterations to the distributor, wiring mods required, ECU pin-outs, how to trigger spark etc...
fynnbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 02:03 PM   #5
kcchan
Senior Member
 
kcchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bristol-Uni, Kent-Home
Posts: 837
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Just for reference, what is the length of COP? and the OD of the rubber seal? Could help others decide on what is suitable for their builds (ie not just Honda's)
__________________
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow.
kcchan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 05:08 PM   #6
Underhauled
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 156
Default

Nice mod. As a volkswagen nut I really like this. Looking forward to more info.
Underhauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 08:53 PM   #7
B20C5
Member
 
B20C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 93
Subframe: MTB
CC: 2020
Make: Honda
ECU: AEM
Default

Alright then, here is some more information:

The outer diameter of the sealing area is 32.75 mm when uncompressed. The minimum compressed diameter that can be had is 31.00 mm. I have attached a photo with a measure, as the exact length you may need could vary a touch.

As for the wiring, the coils have the pins numbered inside the connector. I have attached the factory track diagram which shows the pin functions as follows:

Pin 1: Switched 12V supply
Pin 2: Signal ground
Pin 3: ECU signal (0, +5v)
Pin 4: Coil/plug ground

When wiring the coils, I would personally suggest grounding the #4 pins directly to the head and routing the #2 pins to the same grounding location that your ECU is grounded to. Pins #3 will be wired to the coil outputs of your ECU, and can be configured for wasted spark if your ECU only has one output per pair of cylinders.

When setting up the ECU:
Cranking dwell= 3.0 mS
Nominal dwell= 2.6 mS
Spark Output Inverted = NO (if your ECU has this option)

I am using an AEM 30-1060U ecu, so for me it was just a matter of configuring 3 additional pins in the software as coil outputs and telling the ECU to fire them sequentially. Hondata offers a solution that works with their S300 systems (Hondata CPR). I am not 100% sure how they configure their software, so I cant be sure if you could use their box with CROME or NepTune. I know that some versions of MegaSquirt have multiple coil outputs available too. I could also imagine this working with the Haltech, Motec, ETC....

Enjoy!




Last edited by B20C5; 21-12-2014 at 09:18 PM.
B20C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2014, 10:39 PM   #8
Underhauled
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 156
Default

Cheers. Do you still need the dizzy or does the ecu use a different signal for rpm trigger?

Last edited by Underhauled; 21-12-2014 at 10:50 PM.
Underhauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2014, 12:57 AM   #9
B20C5
Member
 
B20C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 93
Subframe: MTB
CC: 2020
Make: Honda
ECU: AEM
Default

Yes and no... The ECU still needs a CKP and CYP signal. This can be taken from the stock distributor base, an aftermarket distributor base, or from an aftermarket sensor like this AEM one. I am using an MSD base without a cap as the AEM one did not exist when I converted to COP.

Last edited by B20C5; 22-12-2014 at 02:43 AM.
B20C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2014, 01:51 AM   #10
B20C5
Member
 
B20C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 93
Subframe: MTB
CC: 2020
Make: Honda
ECU: AEM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fynnbar View Post
If you could give us a start-to-finish account of this, it'd make a great sticky.
Stuff we need to know including what alterations to the distributor, wiring mods required, ECU pin-outs, how to trigger spark etc...
I will update this with some more pictures and tips as I move forward. Everything up to this point is correct and will work the way it has been described. I have already done it with S2000 coils and I just like the fit of the Audi coils better.
B20C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-12-2014, 03:30 AM   #11
B20C5
Member
 
B20C5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 93
Subframe: MTB
CC: 2020
Make: Honda
ECU: AEM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniMadGreg. View Post
I like that! Been wanting to change for ages! Anyone know if neptune rtp can have COP?
After looking more closely at the Hondata CPR, it is evident that Hondata is using the stock ICM pin to signal the CPR unit to fire at the indicated time and has re-designated the ALT-C pin to communicate to the CPR which coil to fire. My guess is that Hondata has chosen to use a wasted spark and are grounding the ALT-C pin during the ignition cycle for two of the four cylinders.

I would imagine that the brains behind Crome and Neptune are fully aware of how this works and could make their software do the same thing. The only problem I see is the pending patent on the part of Hondata. I doubt that anyone wants to mess around with that right now....

Having said that, if the Neptune software will allow you to re-purpose the ALT-C pin as an ignition timed output and you can ground it alternately with the ICM output, you might be able to make the Hondata CPR work with your Neptune RTP.

Last edited by B20C5; 22-12-2014 at 04:15 AM.
B20C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2016, 10:29 PM   #12
Hinsx99
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 13
Default

Looks cool when you lift the spark plug cover, but is there any performance benefit? If so, what??
Hinsx99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2017, 02:52 PM   #13
gav
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 223
CC: 1800
Make: Honda
ECU: Emerald
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinsx99 View Post
Looks cool when you lift the spark plug cover, but is there any performance benefit? If so, what??
You get rid of the troublesome dizzy and move into the 21st century lol. Also more room in the engine bay. Adjustable dwell time for individual cylinders, higher voltage spark (especially useful on higher revving engines) as the coils have more time to energise than a single coil.
gav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 11:01 AM   #14
Birdman
Senior Member
 
Birdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chessington, Surrey
Posts: 5,457
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 2000
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: Motronic 2.5 - Group N Chip
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gav View Post
You get rid of the troublesome dizzy and move into the 21st century lol. Also more room in the engine bay. Adjustable dwell time for individual cylinders, higher voltage spark (especially useful on higher revving engines) as the coils have more time to energise than a single coil.
That's handy - was just going to ask / google the reason.
__________________
Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
(use Irish accent)
Birdman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #15
lsdweb
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: South Wales
Posts: 24
Subframe: Other
CC: 1293
Make: Other
ECU: Emerald
Default

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but does anybody have any photos (the ones above have disappeared) of the specific COP used. I've got VW COPs but not sure if they are the right ones for my B18 - the plug tops (screw on caps) appear to be too small for the COP - I could try a different plug top I suppose?
lsdweb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.