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Old 30-10-2017, 05:01 PM   #31
MattG
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Originally Posted by Oz View Post
I'm finding this subject more interesting the more I look at it.

It's probably more relevant to me as I live on a small Island that's about 9 miles by 5 miles with a 40mph speed limit so high speed performance and long range isn't actually a great "need".

Also the set up is so much simpler than a ICE, it's just a motor, no need for a cooling system (well not strictly true but not a necessity), exhaust pipe, ECU, sensors etc etc.

To make it easier for DIY applications there are a growing number of adapter plates for various gearboxes so you can simply remove the existing ICE and bolt the Electric motor to the plate and the plate to the gearbox using an adapter to take the standard clutch and flywheel. From a few DIY electric car forums I've read they seem to just select one gear (usually 4th) and the electric motor (which produces max torque from 0 rpm) just pulls it off the line, no need for gear changes but it gives you a cheap way to get the power from the motor to the wheels without having to use special gearboxes and drive shafts etc. I guess if you wanted a traffic light GP with someone you could select say third (any lower and you'd probably just spin the wheels with the instant torque) for a better start and shift back up to 4th when you're done.

Last weekend I was following a Nissan Leaf in my slightly breathed on JCW MINI Countryman and every time we left a speed restriction and he accelerated back up to the limit he left me for dead as I was waiting for the turbo to spool up and give me a speed boost (yes I could have dropped down two gears and it would have then eaten him for lunch but its the effortless and rapid acceleration an electric motor gives that I find really quite interesting).

Let's just say I did come across a Honda B series gearbox conversion plate in my interweb travels ...

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Old 31-10-2017, 12:22 PM   #32
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Last weekend I was following a Nissan Leaf in my slightly breathed on JCW MINI Countryman and every time we left a speed restriction and he accelerated back up to the limit he left me for dead as I was waiting for the turbo to spool up and give me a speed boost (yes I could have dropped down two gears and it would have then eaten him for lunch but its the effortless and rapid acceleration an electric motor gives that I find really quite interesting).
The acceleration is just astounding. I've been caught out by a Leaf on a roundabout thinking "Oh I've plenty of time before he gets anywhere near me" but the way they go from 0-10mph is incredible.
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Old 31-10-2017, 12:23 PM   #33
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they go from 0-10mph is incredible.
lol
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Old 31-10-2017, 02:27 PM   #34
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lol


Laughing aside, electric motors give peak torque from 0rpm - this motor gives the same sort of HP as a B16 but with nearly 190lb/ft (my B16 has 119lb/ft) , all of that torque being available from 0rpm so that is why these cars accelerate so fast from low speeds. They do struggle at higher speeds compared to ICEs but generally you can compensate with appropriate gearing. In the real word of driving around this motor would destroy a equivalent B16 powered car through the better torque (much like a diesel car makes a better commuting car than a petrol one as you can ride the wave of torque rather than thrashing the motor through the gears to get the same performance). Obviously as the speeds increase the ICE car will reel the EV and on a race track there would be no contest but as a commuting car and a fun weekend blast I do think the EV would be more fun down to the better torque plus you don't get miserable old folk waving at you revving the nuts off your engine - they probably wouldn't even hear you coming
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Old 31-10-2017, 05:43 PM   #35
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OK so my brain has been slightly blown on this subject by this:-

https://issuu.com/jackrickard/docs/evtvcatalog2015/244

Anyone interested can look at pages 206 and 207 which give a breakdown of the differences in the EV motor against the ICE but what really blew my mind was the bit at the end of page 207 where it says

Quote:
As a rough rule of thumb, a given electric motor of 1/2 the peak torque of the internal combustion engine, will give the same performance in acceleration
SO for example my 119lb/ft (let's call it 120 for ease of the calculation) B16 only needs a 60lb/ft from an EV motor to give the same acceleration ! I think that 190lb/ft motor I posted above would melt the tyres !!

It has to be said that in these applications it is presumed you are using the standard manual transmission and shifting to keep the EV motor in the torque band as you would with a ICE, not using the transmission as a fixed ratio. If you were to lock the engine in say 3rd or 4th gear then you'd have to have a much higher torque motor to get it going from standstill.

The maths on pages 208-211 hurt my head, I need a bit of time to digest them but it would be interesting to try and work something out for a Mini.
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Old 31-10-2017, 05:45 PM   #36
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I do also wonder about motor direction. In theory an electric motor should be able to be spun equally in both directions - this is important bearing in mind the B series spins the opposite direction to a "normal" engine !
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:56 AM   #37
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oz/mathew, you realy should not take ,L,S,D, IT REALY WILL EFECT YOUR MIND GUYS
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:02 AM   #38
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I was thinking of adding electric to the front of the MGTF, just the batteries are so expensive that it put me off which is a shame since the MGF front frame setup already caters for adding a set of driveshafts straight in due to the cheap build it out of rover spares design.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:01 AM   #39
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oz/mathew, you realy should not take ,L,S,D, IT REALY WILL EFECT YOUR MIND GUYS
wowwww !!! I can see the future, maaan !!
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:18 PM   #40
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I was thinking of adding electric to the front of the MGTF, just the batteries are so expensive that it put me off which is a shame since the MGF front frame setup already caters for adding a set of driveshafts straight in due to the cheap build it out of rover spares design.
mg/rover did exactly this as a working prototype
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:51 PM   #41
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mg/rover did exactly this as a working prototype
.... and decades before the i8
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Old 17-11-2017, 10:59 PM   #42
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Following this thread, it's exactly where my thoughts are at, just considering which is the best conversion subframe that retains inner wings as much as poss
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