16v Mini Club Forums  

Go Back   16v Mini Club Forums > General Public Area > Suzuki Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23-04-2016, 11:57 PM   #1
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default Moke G13B Conversion

Not sure if this will work, but due to the sad loss of everything on here for over year, all my build posts have gone. I've attempted to load from another forum ...

Time to start a new thread and one that will be running for a little while I'm guessing. I've been thinking for a while about what conversion to do on one of my Mokes. While I was back in UK a couple of months ago, I went to Lynx Engineering in Nottingham to look at their R1 conversion - it's very smart but also quite expensive (by the time you include an engine and ECU/electrics/etc).

After trawling a few of the 16V forums (16vminiclub.com and redlinegti.com) and building up a lot of useful info, I've decided to go for a Suzuki Swift GTI (G13B) engine and box. More searching on Gumtree and ebay yielded a converted subframe and a superb engine/gearbox/extractors/ driveshafts /ecu/wiring/gearchange/induction/alternator/starter/engine mountings package. Harry is a specialist Swift GTI dismantler in Hallam, VIC - he has been ultra helpful and everything has arrived cleaned, painted and exactly as described. Fantastic service.

To start things off, I thought I'd post the first (of many) photos showing the two power plants next to each other.



2nd and 3rd photos are a couple of close ups of the G13B engine ...





This where it has to go ... rumours are it will fit



Watch this space.

Cheers Adrian

Based on research to date this is the list of mods required:

Inlet manifold needs shortening/raising.
Inner wings need a degree of butchery.
Clutch actuation will need a workable solution (either hydraulic or cable - not decided yet).
Driveshafts need to be cut and welded (Mini outers and Suzuki inners).
A chunk of wiring work
Radiator (I'll probably keep the alloy Moke one but fit the Suzuki thermofan).
Speedo cable (and how I attach it to the Moke speedo?)
Gear selector rods (will need shortening and attaching)
Exhaust to extractors connection
New gearbox oil filler plug location (as it get hidden when installed in Moke/Mini)
Fuel pump
Brake booster
and 100's of other small relocation jobs

Think that's it until I start trying to physically fit things.

I had a bit of time to spend under the carport this afternoon. Built myself a body lift (from 50x50x3 angle) - $100 all up including a borrowed chain block. Works a treat. All ready for collecting the G13B subframe this weekend ;D

Cheers Adrian



So on to today's instalment. I've got the engine into the modified subframe (albeit I need to fabricate a couple of new brackets) - see photos below. Clearances all seem ok but I will have to undertake a major mod to get the inlet manifold to clear the bulkhead. Choices are:

1) shorten and upsweep the manifold or
2) cut away the box section part of the bulkhead between the brake master cylinder and blanking plate on the passenger side.

Does anyone foresee a problem with option 2?

Cheers Adrian






I'm now the proud owner of a Mk1 manifold, AFM and throttle body (all for the princely sum of $270 delivered). Should be here early next week ;D

Mk1 Inlet Manifold arrived this week but not had a chance to fit it to the engine yet. That said, I did spend a bit of time today removing the old front subbie. Everything is now ready for trial fitting once I get the suspension etc transferred across. Give it another couple of weeks




Made some good progress over the last week or so. The new front subbie is in with all the old suspension and hubs transferred across (although it will have to come out again a few times no doubt). I will need adjustable tie bars as the front mounts are in a different place to the tune of approx. 20mm. Next step is to trial fit the motor - fingers crossed about the Mk1 manifold. I'll also need to remove the clutch master cylinder and the associated engine tie bar mounting brackets.

Cheers Adrian






Engine is in (albeit supported on wooden blocks) and the older Mk 1 inlet manifold clears the bulkhead a treat. I had to take the headlight out to get sufficient clearance for the timing belt cover but we'll worry about that later. Good news is that everything seems to have plenty of clearance.

One potential challenge to be overcome is the alternator location which may be a bit close to tyre on full lock. Other than that and a redundant lug on the gearbox casing which I need to grind off its all systems go.

Well pleased ;D ;D ;D ;D

Cheers Adrian





G-day all,

Latest pics from today's efforts. The engine is now bolted to the 3 x mounts. I will have to modify the headlamp bowl as I have ended up with approx. 25mm interference - I was unable to tilt the engine any further back as the water pump pulley was hitting the subframe tower. The alternator problem has gone away but I now have another problem.

The 4-2-1 exhaust manifold that came with the engine package is too big to fit between the block and the grille - I have max 100mm (allowing for 10mm clearance) and I need 160mm to use the 4-2-1 manifold. I'll have to revert to a standard manifold (which has less space requirements).

Very pleased with the weekend's efforts.

Cheers Adrian





A little bit more progress this evening (and some photos to boot) ... the alternator is now bolted in situ and the longer drive belt is fitted. Clutch is now operational - cable and pedal mods have worked a treat. I've also managed to prep the driveshafts for machining and welding. I've done some drawings so should be able to get them made over the Christmas break.

Cheers for now,

Adrian











And so 4 bits of driveshafts become 2 + the exhaust manifold flange is now drilled out to accept the modified extractors. Little steps

Cheers Adrian



Happy Christmas fellow Mokers - hope everyone is having a relaxing break.

I managed to get a bit of time today under the carport. The 'new' driveshafts are fitted - all good - and I've managed to get the extractors to fit. There's plenty of clearance (at least 15mm to the front grille) and 10mm to the block and front subframe support (currently not fitted). They just need welding up now and then covered in exhaust heat wrap (not least to cover the beating with the small sledge ). A few photos attached.

Cheers Adrian



[IMG]http://www.mokeforum.com.au/gallery/11/2522-261215185824.jpeg[IMG]

Last edited by adriantillin; 24-04-2016 at 12:41 AM.
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2016, 12:47 AM   #2
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Happy New Year all,

Now we're back from the family Snowies Road Trip, I've managed to get a few hours under the carport working on MOKIII. The modified driveshafts are in and everything works ok. The end result is pretty good for alignment also - driveshafts sit almost horizontal and only slightly out of line looking from above.

I've also lost the Cyclops look - in other words I've managed to modify the headlamp bowl to enable me to get the original light unit back in and clear the cam cover. Very happy with the result and a massive 8mm clearance

Next win has been the induction pipework and air filter - all looking quite blingy in polished ally and red silicone hose. I still have to cut the threads back on the clamps and make a bracket to keep everything in place, but otherwise ticked off the list ;D

As a result of mounting the air filter down at the front behind the grille, I've had to find a revised location for the radiator. I'm going to start by using the alloy rad that I put into MOKIII originally. If that doesn't provide enough cooling I'll try a 2" alloy rad. I've fitted a 9" Davies Craig electric fan to the rad and decided to use the original radiator location. I'll mount the rad to the subframe tower at the back and the engine mount location at the front (next job).

Then I'm on to gear shift and welding up the extractors (which was going to be my first job back but I got distracted ) so that I can fit the exhaust.

Shame its back to work tomorrow

Cheers Adrian









Spent most of the day fitting the radiator (it may not even need to come out again ) Brackets look fine painted and bolted to the subframe tower at the rear and engine mounting at the front. Its nice and secure and the finishing strip does a good job of hiding all the chopping around the inner wing. I've also sorted the cooling hose arrangement (not fitted yet). 3 x Moke top hoses, 2 aluminium joiners and a short straight hose will enable me to connect inlet and outlet and avoid the possible chaffing around the gearbox area. Now where do I get red mini top hoses from?

Cheers Adrian





Seemed to spend this weekend taking stuff off/stripping stuff down/cleaning stuff up whilst waiting for some parts to arrive/be modified. My extractors are still not back from the welders and my gear linkage parts have not arrived (so I couldn't get on with modifying the gear shift). I'm also waiting for a set of red silicone hoses for the cooling system.

In the meantime, I've started on the fuelling. One of the key jobs for the EFI system is to run a return line from the fuel rail to the tank. With the older top fill, there's not much room anywhere around the tank when it situ. I've taken the tank out, removed the sender unit which is mounted on the front end and had a pause to think.

My plan (after the think) is to run the return line through a hole in the sender unit (through which I'll fit a M10 threaded 6mm brass barb with sealing washers each side). My fall back option is to fit a Suzuki Swift fuel pump (which has a built in return line) through a new hole cut in the end of the tank. This will require some significant mods to the partition in the side box (not preferred).

I'm intending to use the front storage compartment in the side box (the one in front of the tank in older Mokes) to fit the fuel filter and VL fuel pump, with the supply and return lines following the traditional route through the front bulkhead. Should be able to make progress on this next weekend, after the fuel hoses, barb and reducers arrive.

I've also been sorting out the booster location, brake pipe routes and coolant overflow tank location. It's a bit tight but everything will go under the bonnet ;D

Cheers Adrian

)

I love it when parts arrive ;D

During the week I got all my red hoses (fuel and coolant), a selection of pipe connectors, reducers, barbs, clips and my modified extractors were finally ready. I'm still waiting on my dizzy and gear selector bracket, but I had more than enough stuff to make some real progress this weekend. The fuel pump, fuel filter and lines are all in (no electrics yet), the sender unit is modified to include a fuel return, the fuel tank is back in and all coolant hoses are now connected. I've also wrapped the extractors and bolted them up in situ (just the system and back box to fit now).

A few pics ...

Cheers Adrian













Got home from work a bit earlier today. Managed to do a trial fit with all under bonnet components. There's still room for the ECU on the bulkhead ;D

Cheers Adrian



Another good weekend of progress (mixed in with fettling the TVR for sale). The bulkhead is now officially full (with the ECU in place), although everything does fit nicely. The booster is now bolted in position and the front brake flexible mountings are now made and bolted to the subframe rails. All coolant pipes are now connected (including intake manifold) and the system is filled (no leaks) ;D

I've got my brake pipe flaring tool so I'm all ready to make up the front system with new pipes and new unions ;D

And to cap all that, there's still a bit of space under the dizzy for the coil etc ;D

Cheers Adrian



I must be getting a bit distracted now - here's my latest idea. What do you reckon before I attach it permanently?

Cheers Adrian



Great British tool - great British result. Easy as ;D


Last edited by adriantillin; 24-04-2016 at 12:53 AM.
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2016, 12:56 AM   #3
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Just to break things up a bit this weekend (as I've spent a lot of time bending and fitting brake pipes), I thought I'd get the exhaust fitted, especially as I finally had all the necessary parts to get the job done. There's also going to be plenty of room for the gear shift down the other side of the transmission tunnel (although that job is still waiting on the arrival of the genuine mounting bracket in the post) ;D

Cheers Adrian



I seem to be running out of major transplant jobs - the to do list is looking much more manageable. I'm STILL waiting for the gear shift mounting bracket to arrive (so at the moment I can't make a start on getting the gear shift sorted out). In the meantime, I've hooked up the accelerator cable to the pedal and mounted the ECU up under the dash. I've also made a start on the dreaded wiring job (see below):

Cheers Adrian



And fitted a new horn (which is much smaller and fits in the available space) ;D



+ a general progress update (with all brake pipes done and booster fully fitted)



Cheers Adrian

Wife's 50th on Saturday so Moke work has been a bit limited ;D

Did manage to get out there today for a while and spend some more time on the wiring. The coil loom is now minimalized and I've fitted the coil to the bulkhead. The fuel pump wiring is in and tested - all works fine and the return line via a barb through the sender unit is a winner. Just like the England rugby team ;D

I've also fitted the main 60A fuse breaker from the Suzuki between the alternator/rest of the loom and battery cable (its bolted to the subframe tower on the driver's side). The battery cable is now in one continuous piece all the way to the starter motor.

I've also fitted some 'new' speakers to replace the very sub standard ones that used to sit under the dash. The 2nd photo also shows the ECU (now mounted centrally up under the dash) - if you look really closely. Finally, I've relocated the windscreen washer bottle to its new home above the passenger footwell.

I've been promised the gear shift bracket this week, so I'll be able to do the final 'major job' and fit the shortened gear linkage. Last major job apart from the wiring of course. :

Cheers Adrian







It's been a while since my last update but things have been progressing (just not photo worthy). While everyone was at Shep, I've been at the wiring, gear linkage and clutch pedal mods. I now have a 5 speed ;D



The linkage was a bit of a challenge - not sure what its made of but welding was not going well so I resorted to a sleeve and pipe bender. Its turned out ok and works a treat.



The engine bay is just about finished apart from tidying the wiring and securing relays/fuses. I'm hoping to get the remainder of the fuel/ECU wiring completed this weekend so should be able to try a start up ;D



Cheers Adrian

Didn't quite make it as far as starting up. Close but no cigar - I've got ignition light, oil pressure light, the starter motor turns over on the key but I cant figure out the air flow meter wiring. I'm using a Mk1 AFM and a Mk2 loom. The colours are different and without guessing I'm stuck. I've posted on the 16v Mini forum, Team Swift and the Redline GTI forums - just waiting for a reply now.

Might need to do a bit of tidying on the loom when I'm up and running ;D



Watch this space.

Cheers Adrian

AFM wiring is sorted ;D I used the Mk2 meter and 'adapted' it to fit the Mk1 manifold.

I connected and powered up the ECU this afternoon and crossed my fingers. I now have a fully functioning fuel pump/system, which cuts out at static pressure of 3bar (factory setting). The motor turns over fine but I have no spark at the plugs. I have 12v at the coil but something somewhere isn't right.

I said it wouldn't start first turn of the key. Have run out of time today but I will get the check light on the diagnostic port to find out the ECU fault codes (Thursday).

Oh so very close ;D

Cheers Adrian

I'm learning all the time Spent a good portion of the day with a multimeter and my ECU/ignition system. Most of the voltages and resistances were all good. My problem appears to be the coil (high primary side resistance reading) and the ignition output signal from the ECU which wont deliver 3V at cranking. I've ordered a new coil but will hold fire on getting a replacement ECU until new coil arrives and is tested.

I suppose its progress (i.e. most things are ok) ;D

Cheers Adrian

Thanks mate - the splicing hasn't been too bad. In total it was only about 5 wires and then the revised alternator and sender connections. Just need to sort out this coil/ECU ignition output signal problem. New coil should be here Wed and if that doesn't work a replacement ECU is only $100

Cheers Adrian

Last edited by adriantillin; 24-04-2016 at 12:59 AM.
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2016, 05:29 AM   #4
99fusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A funny little country with more special beers per capita than anywhere else
Posts: 367
Subframe: Allspeed
Make: Suzuki
Default

Great build thread and read! (even better than the last one ! ) Having it all in one go makes it look like you're steam rolling through the conversion!

I'll definitely be scrutinizing this for my build next year after having finally got the engine out and scrapping the rotten swift that's been sitting in a garage for almost 9 years a cpl of days ago (other commitments past n future yadiyadayada)

Do you really need a Mk1 inlet manifold ? I seem to remember someone on here CNC'd an angled plate between the block and manifold to change the orientation of the whole fueling assembly up a few degrees...

How did you tweak the alternator position to clear the wheel at full lock? Hammer cut n spanner?
Would be great if you got any pics of how you cut the inner wing(s) to share!

And something I've been wondering for a while now... on the swift between the engine and the fuel tank, there's a black bottle / reservoir connected in-line. I've always wondered what it's for...

Keep on spannering!
99fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 08:19 AM   #5
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Well - the car's still not going. Auto elec popped round on Thursday and we identified that the crank angle sensor in the distributor was not giving a sufficient signal to energise the ECU to throw an output signal to the coil. I've now fitted a new CAS and its still not giving a spark. Out of desperation I changed the distributor body over today with a spare I had. The trigger wheel was in a different place on the distributor shaft - bingo I thought. I rebuilt the distributor and still no spark. I do get an inconsistent spark turning the distributor by hand (when not bolted in place) but as soon as I refit it and crank the engine over I get no spark.

Completely baffled - I've now changed the coil, ECU, distributor, crank angle sensor, ignition power unit, and checked everything else at least twice.

Any ideas??????????

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 09:22 AM   #6
bobjonah
Senior Member
 
bobjonah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Moncton, NB , Canada
Posts: 387
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: standard
Default

Sounds like something may be grounding to the distributor case - should be able to test with a multimeter at the plug.

Good Luck - you are close
bobjonah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 11:09 AM   #7
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjonah View Post
Sounds like something may be grounding to the distributor case - should be able to test with a multimeter at the plug.

Good Luck - you are close
Good thought Bob - will try that tomorrow.

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 07:35 AM   #8
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99fusion View Post
Great build thread and read! (even better than the last one ! ) Having it all in one go makes it look like you're steam rolling through the conversion!

I'll definitely be scrutinizing this for my build next year after having finally got the engine out and scrapping the rotten swift that's been sitting in a garage for almost 9 years a cpl of days ago (other commitments past n future yadiyadayada)

Do you really need a Mk1 inlet manifold ? I seem to remember someone on here CNC'd an angled plate between the block and manifold to change the orientation of the whole fueling assembly up a few degrees...

How did you tweak the alternator position to clear the wheel at full lock? Hammer cut n spanner?
Would be great if you got any pics of how you cut the inner wing(s) to share!

And something I've been wondering for a while now... on the swift between the engine and the fuel tank, there's a black bottle / reservoir connected in-line. I've always wondered what it's for...

Keep on spannering!
Sorry mate - what will all my electrical challenges I forgot to answer your post. Really pleased you're starting down the G13B conversion path. I probably didn't need the Mk1 manifold but its a lot easy than machining the Mk2 version and it was not $$$$$$. Probably would have cost the same amount to get the Mk2 unit converted.

I'll get mine running and sorted with the Mk1 then I might go for throttle bodies, coil packs and non-std ECU in due course.

The alternator problem went away as the interference only occurs when the car is on stands. No problems with normal suspension travel. You should be able to see how much inner wing I had to cut in some of the photos.

Finally, I reckon that black reservoir is emissions canister.

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 07:37 AM   #9
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adriantillin View Post
Good thought Bob - will try that tomorrow.

Cheers Adrian
Hi Bob - I did all the tests and its not a distributor grounding problem. I now believe its something to do with my ignition circuit. The voltage drops significantly on cranking using the key. It could be the Suzi starter motor or something in the joining of the Moke and Suzi looms.

Watch this space.

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 08:48 AM   #10
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

GREAT NEWS - I now have a spark. Problem was the EFI relay supply was coming from an ignition feed which was being isolated when the ignition key cranked the starter motor. The supply now comes from a stable 12v battery feed.

Next problem is I now have no fuel pressure. Pump is working fine and fuel is being pumped via the return. Everything was ok so I can only assume the FPR has failed in the fuel rail (the brittle problem encountered elsewhere). I have an adjustable FPR so will install that in the return line at the weekend.

PS: all injectors are firing correctly (checked with a sound meter).

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2016, 04:49 AM   #11
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default



The car is finally running. Looks like the final problem was an air lock in the fuel rail. I have a poorly alternator but that's an easy change out.

Here's a video

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=video%2cmp4

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2016, 07:02 AM   #12
Mini Vlatko
Senior Member
 
Mini Vlatko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Croatia
Posts: 745
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1998
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: MegaSquirt
Default

Congrats! Milestone reached! Keep on!
__________________
The truth is under a bonnet! :)
https://www.facebook.com/BrutalacGarageZagreb/
Mini Vlatko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2016, 07:34 AM   #13
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini Vlatko View Post
Congrats! Milestone reached! Keep on!
Thanks mate - off to the Engineers next for compliance
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2016, 09:26 AM   #14
bobjonah
Senior Member
 
bobjonah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Moncton, NB , Canada
Posts: 387
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: standard
Default

WOW! You must be very excited now. Please keep us up to date on how it all shakes out.
bobjonah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2016, 09:50 AM   #15
adriantillin
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Aus
Posts: 36
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1298
Make: Suzuki
ECU: Standard
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjonah View Post
WOW! You must be very excited now. Please keep us up to date on how it all shakes out.
Thanks Bob - I'll do that.

Cheers Adrian
adriantillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.