16v Mini Club Forums  

Go Back   16v Mini Club Forums > General Public Area > Other Hybrid Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-12-2013, 11:06 AM   #1
vx220
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: the essex
Posts: 83
Default small block vaux vs 7 port a series

Hi,

If you were paying someone (albeit mate's rates) to do your coversion, does it make sense to spend money on a nice a series (mild 7 port/5 speed?) and less on the labour involved around a Vauxhall conversion (although the vaux probably will have power/longevity and cheap replacements if anything fails on its side)

Ball park figures, but a 7 port with bike carb/megajolt and a 5 speed will cost £7k-ish but will basically drop in (assuming mini is in good nick)

Buying all the bits for the vaux will probably cost half that (small block/diesel box/bike carbs/megajolt) but will cost loads more in labour (despite mate's rates!)

Any thoughts?
vx220 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #2
ardonfast
Senior Member
 
ardonfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: dunkeswell airfeald devon
Posts: 7,744
Subframe: AMT
CC: 2000
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: dizzy/webers
Default

I cant waight for this hornets nest to unfold,
leave the 7 port and the 5 speedbox out of it as them 2 things are doubleing the cost for not a lot of gain,,
im fully hearing your point and I love the [A] in a way
but thers no comparison to a 1.4 rover]1.6 v,tec] 1.3 16v susuki] ect ect,
must be done,no comparison,
__________________
"yuck ,more like a 3 r2"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tb261HwQNDQ
SAY WHAT YOU BELEVE,,BELEVE WHAT YOU LIKE,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3JhaTwP7uuk

Last edited by ardonfast; 04-12-2013 at 12:05 PM.
ardonfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 12:26 PM   #3
MiniLandy
Senior Member
 
MiniLandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: nr Peterborough
Posts: 2,338
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1400
Make: Rover
ECU: Megajolt
Default

Got to say, once you realise that the people saying "it'll mess up the handling!" are talking out of their ar$es, it's very hard to consider a tuned A series. Most of us on the forum have had tuned A's before, and that's why we're here.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by apbellamy View Post
Fuck me Shaun. That actually made sense.
MiniLandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #4
gimenofl
Senior Member
 
gimenofl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 234
Subframe: Other
CC: 1380
Make: Other
ECU: Typhoon Specialist Co.
Default

Hi Vx,

Look, no seven port, but I put on a Specialist Components K1100 LT engine in my mini 5000Km ago. 138.5 hp on dyno, very flat torque. Driven daily.

I drive rather hard, it was in Zandvoort circuit as well. No problems what so ever so far, other than a light leak from the head gasket sealant, to be replaced at no cost.

In other words, I think that what ever you do, do it right. I have seen bad A-series and bad engine conversions.

Would I have been in the UK without need for new paperwork and the risk of having legal problem I would most certainly have gone D-series (due to gear ratios on 10" wheels). But here in The Continent, the K1100 head is just fabulous.

Lluís
gimenofl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #5
Andy_S
Senior Member
 
Andy_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,088
Subframe: AMT
CC: 1998
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: Megasquirt ... kinda
Default

This is one of those questions which can't easily be answered in a manner that shows that one route is 'better' than the other.

It's true that the 'off the shelf' power from an engine swapped Mini is very reliable, but invariably there's compromises and mechanical problems elsewhere in the car so even though the engines are almost bomb proof, other bits of the car tend to be a headache.

The fancy a-series option requires a big up-front investment and if you're not careful you'll get an overstressed engine & box but there aren't going to be so many compromises and odd-ball mechanical problems elsewhere on the car.

Both options require proper suspension setup so you don't gain either way.

So..........

IMHO you should only go for an engine swapped Mini if it's something that you really want to acheive. If you've got a pot of money and you want a fun powerfull Mini straight out of the box then a tuned a-series would be my first choice.
Andy_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 07:36 PM   #6
Oz
Senior Member
 
Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jersey, Channel Islands
Posts: 4,105
Subframe: Other
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: DTA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniLandy View Post
Got to say, once you realise that the people saying "it'll mess up the handling!" are talking out of their ar$es, it's very hard to consider a tuned A series. Most of us on the forum have had tuned A's before, and that's why we're here.
lol, Mini Mag have put up a pic of a Zetec engined mini on Facebook and cue the usual comments. One guy has posted "but how does it go around corners ?" I'm so tempted to put "by turning the steering wheel"
__________________
New subframe fitting has begun - slowly

Build Thread - Standard Round Nose with K series subframe build begun
Oz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 07:45 PM   #7
ardonfast
Senior Member
 
ardonfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: dunkeswell airfeald devon
Posts: 7,744
Subframe: AMT
CC: 2000
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: dizzy/webers
Default

classic,lol
__________________
"yuck ,more like a 3 r2"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tb261HwQNDQ
SAY WHAT YOU BELEVE,,BELEVE WHAT YOU LIKE,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3JhaTwP7uuk
ardonfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 07:53 PM   #8
Kaison
Senior Member
 
Kaison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brighton, England
Posts: 1,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz View Post
lol, Mini Mag have put up a pic of a Zetec engined mini on Facebook and cue the usual comments. One guy has posted "but how does it go around corners ?" I'm so tempted to put "by turning the steering wheel"
You're welcome.
__________________
Past; 1992 Rover Mini Spite 1275, 1996 Vauxhall Corsa C20XE.
Present; 1994 Suzuki Swift GTI, 1996 Vauxhall Corsa C20XE.
I only bow under braking.
Kaison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 08:04 PM   #9
MiniLandy
Senior Member
 
MiniLandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: nr Peterborough
Posts: 2,338
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1400
Make: Rover
ECU: Megajolt
Default

Haha just went and had a look at that, there are a looot of people out there that hate valvers!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by apbellamy View Post
Fuck me Shaun. That actually made sense.
MiniLandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 08:08 PM   #10
Kaison
Senior Member
 
Kaison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brighton, England
Posts: 1,292
Default

That's what makes it so appealing. . . and yet when someone slams a Mini to the ground and ruins ALL it's driving characteristics, no one raises and eyebrow, they all applaud.
__________________
Past; 1992 Rover Mini Spite 1275, 1996 Vauxhall Corsa C20XE.
Present; 1994 Suzuki Swift GTI, 1996 Vauxhall Corsa C20XE.
I only bow under braking.
Kaison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 08:18 PM   #11
vx220
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: the essex
Posts: 83
Default

Thanks for comments guys
Not worried about handling, well aware of a series bulk
Just looking for an easy way to 5speed and 110-ish horsepower
Daily drive, but usually small distances
Need something that feels fast without being licence losing, and makes "everyday a trackday"
vx220 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 09:31 PM   #12
apbellamy
Senior Member
 
apbellamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Posts: 1,996
ECU: SC Typhoon
Default

Why 5 speed? Spec your 4 speed box properly (gear ratios and final drive in combination with wheel and tyre size) and it will be fine.

Doesn't matter what engine you choose, if you buy a tired old second hand engine, be it a metro 1275 or a K series etc, you are getting a used engine and it's very unlikely that you will be able to verify it's condition. I would always gather parts and build a fresh engine no matter what I was fitting. Costs more, but you know what you are getting.

I've seen countless people who have spent plenty of money on an aledgedly hot A series only to find out it's been put together by a ham fisted grapes. A lot of them then end up on here, start a conversion and then sell up as it's harder than they thought and minis are bananas
__________________
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardonfast View Post
seat mounting should not be taken lightly, nor should a rat trying to get up your trouser leg doing 50,m,p,h, all of a suden your nUts become more important,
apbellamy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 01:11 PM   #13
Oz
Senior Member
 
Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jersey, Channel Islands
Posts: 4,105
Subframe: Other
CC: 1595
Make: Honda
ECU: DTA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaison View Post
You're welcome.
lol
__________________
New subframe fitting has begun - slowly

Build Thread - Standard Round Nose with K series subframe build begun
Oz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 02:07 PM   #14
gimenofl
Senior Member
 
gimenofl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 234
Subframe: Other
CC: 1380
Make: Other
ECU: Typhoon Specialist Co.
Default

Agreed with Apbellamy, gear spacing and ratios is critical. In case you have €€€ and little time go for a Specialist Components 16V of a gas flow head and 2.9 FR (3000rpm on 10" at 100 km/h) or a nice MED. In case you want a modern conversion, look at the many options you have from Honda to Vauxhall and decide on subframe or make your own.

I think that what is fundamental is that either way you get a GOOD engine and a GOOD set-up.
gimenofl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 09:52 PM   #15
minimutley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Wales
Posts: 131
Subframe: Home Made
CC: 1600
Make: Honda
ECU: pinto dizzy, bike carbs
Default

Some very sensible replies here, a tuned a series, done well on a good engine base is a wonderful fun drive (1380 my favourite). I'm guessing that a k1100 would be even better, and selecting the right FD to take advantage of the increased torque should only improve things.
Having direct experience with a (std) 1600k series on dellorto carbs, made me wonder what a tuned 1.8 would be like?? The 1600 went like stink, I was grabbing gears like it was a motorbike,but a head rebuild (ingested piece of bananas air filter housing) with a std steel front end was a pig.
One thing is certain, building and maintaining one is not simple, especially if you're trying to fit it into a std front end, and you only have to see how long most people spend building these machines. Done badly it's a nightmare...
One other point, modern turbo diesels have so much mid range torque these days it makes most NA cars feel slow, turbos give so much kick they're hard to beat - petrol or diesel (or lpg if you have room for a tank).
Huw
minimutley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.