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-   -   Coil-on-plug for B-Series VTEC engines... (http://www.16vminiclub.com/showthread.php?t=36045)

B20C5 21-12-2014 04:36 AM

Coil-on-plug for B-Series VTEC engines...
 
Hello gents! I just wanted to share this bit of information for those of you who are running Honda B-series VTEC engines...

If you have ever thought about converting to a COP system, or have already converted and are not happy with the fitment of the coils you have selected, this might be of interest to you.

I have recently discovered that it is possible to modify an Audi/VW coil to fit perfectly on a Honda B-Series VTEC head. Once the modification has been performed, the coils fit correctly on the plugs and seal completely in the valve cover. They are designed to hold onto the spark plug heads, so it is not necessary to bolt them down or use a cap to hold them in place, which is very convenient.

The coils I used were pulled from a 2002 Audi 3.0l V6.

1.) Using a razor blade, or similar cutting device, remove the lower seal from the coil assembly.

2.) Push the coil assembly onto spark plug.

3.) Wire the coil(s) to your engine management system accordingly.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psfd65a4d6.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psae63ca87.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7573515a.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9e59aa25.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps75358318.jpg

fynnbar 21-12-2014 07:50 AM

Oh that's rather cool.
Have you wired them up yet, and run it ?
Did you cut the wiring plugs required from the Audi loom ?

MiniMadGreg. 21-12-2014 10:47 AM

I like that! Been wanting to change for ages! Anyone know if neptune rtp can have COP?

fynnbar 21-12-2014 10:54 AM

If you could give us a start-to-finish account of this, it'd make a great sticky.
Stuff we need to know including what alterations to the distributor, wiring mods required, ECU pin-outs, how to trigger spark etc...

kcchan 21-12-2014 02:03 PM

Just for reference, what is the length of COP? and the OD of the rubber seal? Could help others decide on what is suitable for their builds (ie not just Honda's)

Underhauled 21-12-2014 05:08 PM

Nice mod. As a volkswagen nut I really like this. Looking forward to more info.

B20C5 21-12-2014 08:53 PM

Alright then, here is some more information:

The outer diameter of the sealing area is 32.75 mm when uncompressed. The minimum compressed diameter that can be had is 31.00 mm. I have attached a photo with a measure, as the exact length you may need could vary a touch.

As for the wiring, the coils have the pins numbered inside the connector. I have attached the factory track diagram which shows the pin functions as follows:

Pin 1: Switched 12V supply
Pin 2: Signal ground
Pin 3: ECU signal (0, +5v)
Pin 4: Coil/plug ground

When wiring the coils, I would personally suggest grounding the #4 pins directly to the head and routing the #2 pins to the same grounding location that your ECU is grounded to. Pins #3 will be wired to the coil outputs of your ECU, and can be configured for wasted spark if your ECU only has one output per pair of cylinders.

When setting up the ECU:
Cranking dwell= 3.0 mS
Nominal dwell= 2.6 mS
Spark Output Inverted = NO (if your ECU has this option)

I am using an AEM 30-1060U ecu, so for me it was just a matter of configuring 3 additional pins in the software as coil outputs and telling the ECU to fire them sequentially. Hondata offers a solution that works with their S300 systems (Hondata CPR). I am not 100% sure how they configure their software, so I cant be sure if you could use their box with CROME or NepTune. I know that some versions of MegaSquirt have multiple coil outputs available too. I could also imagine this working with the Haltech, Motec, ETC....

Enjoy!

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps42937f71.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psb149010c.gif

Underhauled 21-12-2014 10:39 PM

Cheers. Do you still need the dizzy or does the ecu use a different signal for rpm trigger?

B20C5 22-12-2014 12:57 AM

Yes and no... The ECU still needs a CKP and CYP signal. This can be taken from the stock distributor base, an aftermarket distributor base, or from an aftermarket sensor like this AEM one. I am using an MSD base without a cap as the AEM one did not exist when I converted to COP.

B20C5 22-12-2014 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fynnbar (Post 355620)
If you could give us a start-to-finish account of this, it'd make a great sticky.
Stuff we need to know including what alterations to the distributor, wiring mods required, ECU pin-outs, how to trigger spark etc...

I will update this with some more pictures and tips as I move forward. Everything up to this point is correct and will work the way it has been described. I have already done it with S2000 coils and I just like the fit of the Audi coils better.

B20C5 22-12-2014 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniMadGreg. (Post 355618)
I like that! Been wanting to change for ages! Anyone know if neptune rtp can have COP?

After looking more closely at the Hondata CPR, it is evident that Hondata is using the stock ICM pin to signal the CPR unit to fire at the indicated time and has re-designated the ALT-C pin to communicate to the CPR which coil to fire. My guess is that Hondata has chosen to use a wasted spark and are grounding the ALT-C pin during the ignition cycle for two of the four cylinders.

I would imagine that the brains behind Crome and Neptune are fully aware of how this works and could make their software do the same thing. The only problem I see is the pending patent on the part of Hondata. I doubt that anyone wants to mess around with that right now....

Having said that, if the Neptune software will allow you to re-purpose the ALT-C pin as an ignition timed output and you can ground it alternately with the ICM output, you might be able to make the Hondata CPR work with your Neptune RTP.

Hinsx99 27-08-2016 10:29 PM

Looks cool when you lift the spark plug cover, but is there any performance benefit? If so, what??

gav 09-03-2017 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinsx99 (Post 362519)
Looks cool when you lift the spark plug cover, but is there any performance benefit? If so, what??

You get rid of the troublesome dizzy and move into the 21st century lol. Also more room in the engine bay. Adjustable dwell time for individual cylinders, higher voltage spark (especially useful on higher revving engines) as the coils have more time to energise than a single coil.

Birdman 10-03-2017 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gav (Post 368327)
You get rid of the troublesome dizzy and move into the 21st century lol. Also more room in the engine bay. Adjustable dwell time for individual cylinders, higher voltage spark (especially useful on higher revving engines) as the coils have more time to energise than a single coil.

That's handy - was just going to ask / google the reason. :cool:

lsdweb 08-11-2017 12:25 PM

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but does anybody have any photos (the ones above have disappeared) of the specific COP used. I've got VW COPs but not sure if they are the right ones for my B18 - the plug tops (screw on caps) appear to be too small for the COP - I could try a different plug top I suppose?


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