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-   -   Is this a large enough radiator for a rear engine setup? (https://www.16vminiclub.com/showthread.php?t=34790)

longlivekel 06-04-2014 08:59 PM

Is this a large enough radiator for a rear engine setup?
 
Hey guys,
Rear engine toyota 1.5 1nzfe setup, is this a big enough 2 row radiator if mounted in the front?
Of course I will use the highest CFM spal fan(s) i can fit.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/028...g?v=1385228838
Dimensions : 11"(H) X 17 1/2"(W)

Thanks

MattG 07-04-2014 06:31 AM

give it a go :)

Beavis 07-04-2014 07:46 AM

when you compare it to the stock 1nz-fe rad thats huge i would be more worried about the pump to get the water to the front and back again

longlivekel 07-04-2014 01:28 PM

Beavis,
I was worried about that too. I could consider an inline electric pump located at the front. I wonder if there is a pulley upgrade or high volume pump available for the 1nzfe. The pulley upgrade would just be a larger pulley.
Any other suggestions?

Beavis 07-04-2014 06:23 PM

you talked about a mr2 pump is that suitable ? i dont think there would be any upgrade pumps for the 1nz-fe it might be better to put a http://www.daviescraig.com.au/ pump at the front on the cold return to the motor and get a http://www.toyboxracingstore.com/sho....tIXXRa0w.dpbs blanking plate for the pump , oh yer there a company called toyboxracing over your way that hots up 1nz-fe 600 bhp and so on . I would try it with the stock pump unless you are going to put bucket loads of extra hp into it

longlivekel 07-04-2014 07:41 PM

I agree. Try the stock and then go from there.
HA.. 100 dollars for a blanking plate!! I dont htink so!
i can buy an electric secondary pump for 100 bux!!!
haha

Beavis 08-04-2014 05:33 AM

yer i knw there stuff is a little steepy

MiniLandy 08-04-2014 12:32 PM

Why would you worry about the pump being able to push the water to the front and back again? The pump pushes a fixed volume of water at any given rpm, it doesn't see how far the coolant moves.

Plenty of engines use the same water pumps for both front and mid mounted car layouts.

Birdman 08-04-2014 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniLandy (Post 340099)
Why would you worry about the pump being able to push the water to the front and back again? The pump pushes a fixed volume of water at any given rpm, it doesn't see how far the coolant moves.

Plenty of engines use the same water pumps for both front and mid mounted car layouts.

Because pumps are sized for their application when designed. Now your asking the std mechanical pump to deal with a much bigger coolant circuit and volume. Otherwise your saying that any old size of pump will do, which just doesn't work. Not so much of a problem when the motor is doing mid to higher rpm, but at low speeds in traffic when there is little cooling effect other than electric fans that's when you might run into issues. The speed of the coolant flowing around the circuit is important too, so that it flows through the rad again.

This is how a davies craig pump electric pump and controller works. You set the temperature and the controller works out and controls the speed and efficiency of the pump, so as to keep the coolant and the set temperature, but not run faster than needed. Mechanical water pumps use a lot of horsepower as rpm increases.

MiniLandy 08-04-2014 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman (Post 340101)
Now your asking the std mechanical pump to deal with a much bigger coolant circuit and volume.

The volume of water moved through the engine isn't going to change just because the overall volume has increased, surely?

The engine doesn't care how big the total volume of coolant is, it just cares that the coolant volume passing through it is sufficient to absorb enough heat from the engine. You could stick the inlet and outlet hoses of the coolant system into a couple of swimming pools if you like, I can't see how it would put more strain on the pump.

Birdman 08-04-2014 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniLandy (Post 340103)
The volume of water moved through the engine isn't going to change just because the overall volume has increased, surely?

The engine doesn't care how big the total volume of coolant is, it just cares that the coolant volume passing through it is sufficient to absorb enough heat from the engine. You could stick the inlet and outlet hoses of the coolant system into a couple of swimming pools if you like, I can't see how it would put more strain on the pump.

Just doesn't work like that. Otherwise what your saying is that we could just use an "A" series water pump on a Chevrolet V8 and expect it to cope with a larger volume of coolant and bigger circuit / bigger radiator, more bends etc etc and still get the job done.

Mechanical automotive water pumps are centrifugal. The impeller has been sized to the coolant circuit when the engine and cooling system were designed. The designer will have calculated the flow rate and the amount of coolant that the pump needs to circulate in a given time to adequately cool the engine under all operating conditions. If it's just a little bit more piping then OK the pump may cope, but be less efficient. If we are now taking about having an engine in the back and pipework up to a front mounted radiator and then all the way back to the engine again, that's a lot bigger a system.

If the pump was electrical then you can increase the pump speed independent of engine rpm ( like davies craig), but the cars mechanical pump is driven off the cambelt or waterpump belt, so only pumps more when rpm increases. At idle these pumps are highly inefficient. At higher speeds they sap lots of horsepower.

MiniLandy 08-04-2014 04:45 PM

That's not even remotely what i'm saying. I'm saying the size of the pump is proportionate to the engine's cooling needs, not the volume of coolant in the system. For example, the MGZR (K series engine, front mounted) uses the same pump as the MGTF (K series, mid mounted). There are also loads of people on here with mid mounted engines, I don't recall any major cooling bother?

Birdman 08-04-2014 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniLandy (Post 340110)
That's not even remotely what i'm saying. I'm saying the size of the pump is proportionate to the engine's cooling needs, not the volume of coolant in the system. For example, the MGZR (K series engine, front mounted) uses the same pump as the MGTF (K series, mid mounted). There are also loads of people on here with mid mounted engines, I don't recall any major cooling bother?

OK , but now you're talking about K series again, which is used in both mid and front engine setup from factory. Maybe Rover calculated the pump flow rate and it was enough to satisfy both setups, But these guys are talking about a Toyota engine and that's probably why they suggested an MR2 pump? Maybe?

MiniLandy 08-04-2014 06:19 PM

Well, short of doing an experiment where all variables are controlled apart from the coolant volume, and we measure the flow rate, i don't think we'll get an answer anytime soon.

Electric pump sounds good though, should negate the need for a thermostat.

longlivekel 08-04-2014 07:04 PM

I forget about this thread for a day and this is what it goes to! haha
you guys have great points.
lets think bout this for a second.. The 2000-06 MR2-s has a standard water pump. 1zzfe 1.8 liter engine. Yes slightly larger than a 1.5 but they leave it stock to pump coolant to the front.
Just something to gnaw on


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